Originally posted by mankie:I thought he went shit after the Red Wedge fiasco… and Markie's picture.
The only exception would be Billy Bragg because that's his whole thing, and people know that when they buy the ticket…. well, it was before Wilco made him shite.
An essay from Thom Yorke
Originally posted by bunnyman:I agree to a large extent.
Why shouldn't musicians have the right to say what they think? You got a voice? Use it. Eminem uses his in his music, and we are subjected to his crap. Thom Yorke wants to say something with a bit of insight and thought about his opinion and he should shut up? Give me a break. Bono, Bob Geldof, Chrissie Hynde, etc. have come out to speak up for people (or in Chrissie's case, animals) that don't have a voice. Good for them.
Yorke's piece is pretty crappy though. One can construct a pretty good argument against the practices of the EU, the US, and the WTO. But you wouldn't know it from reading Yorke's "hipster with a heart" screed.
Too bad he squandered this opportunity by writing a completely emotional response rather than constructing an argument on facts and logic. People will now believe "free-trade is bad because Thom Yorke told me so."
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
perhaps the fact is , sheer facts and logic dont always put the same spin on things as human emotion. One could get a point across by listing names numbers and events, true. But its not the only way. words, pictures, and music, can also get ones point across. and isnt that what he's been doing best for 10 years?
Too bad he squandered this opportunity by writing a completely emotional response rather than constructing an argument on facts and logic. People will now believe "free-trade is bad because Thom Yorke told me so."
doesnt make his arguement/point any more or less powerful.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:Yes it does.
doesnt make his arguement/point any more or less powerful.
If you can't cite specific examples of how the practices of the WTO and the western nations are abusing "free-trade" to the detriment of the LDCs, then there is a good chance your just parroting some crap you heard.
Same if somebody argues for free-trade based on notions of fairness and community, but can't offer up any facts or logic to support the idea that free-trade is beneficial to all parties involved.
When we discussed the "murder capital" you offered up an article to back up your point. That's far more convincing than if you had simply said, "D.C. has been tragically torn asunder by the heartbreak of rampant gun violence."
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Well i think that is because this board is the fact arguing based group. I post the article because if i dont have facts, everyone here shoots me down..BUT an emotional response can trigger a lot in a persons brain to sway thier opinion on something. And some people are more convinced they are doing the right thing when thier heart feels good, and not thier head so much. its just different people. Besides, this essay seemed to be more "this is whats on my mind" then a formal complaint to the WTO. Its all in the way you look at it.
When we discussed the "murder capital" you offered up an article to back up your point. That's far more convincing than if you had simply said, "D.C. has been tragically torn asunder by the heartbreak of rampant gun violence."
Originally posted by sonickteam2:When Hitler convinced his countrymen that the Jews were evil and were to blame for the poor fortunes of Germany, it was a wonderful day for the supremacy of emotional arguments over facts and logic.
Well i think that is because this board is the fact arguing based group. I post the article because if i dont have facts, everyone here shoots me down..BUT an emotional response can trigger a lot in a persons brain to sway thier opinion on something. And some people are more convinced they are doing the right thing when thier heart feels good, and not thier head so much. its just different people. Besides, this essay seemed to be more "this is whats on my mind" then a formal complaint to the WTO. Its all in the way you look at it.
When Slobodan Milosevic preached to his Serbian brethren that the dirty Croats and Moslems were undermining the goodness of the Serbian nation, he was likewise appealing to emotion.
Unless you're talking about music or the like, an intellectually-based argument is superior to an emotionally-based one.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
When Hitler convinced his countrymen that the Jews were evil and were to blame for the poor fortunes of Germany, it was a wonderful day for the supremacy of emotional arguments over facts and logic.whatever.
When Slobodan Milosevic preached to his Serbian brethren that the dirty Croats and Moslems were undermining the goodness of the Serbian nation, he was likewise appealing to emotion.
Unless you're talking about music or the like, an intellectually-based argument is superior to an emotionally-based one.
life should not be a bunch of people stating facts and numbers. thom was being human in his argument against what he feels is wrong.
he stated so in the end.
i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
you watch too much CNN my brother.
he stated so in the end.
i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
you watch too much CNN my brother.
I love Radiohead, but just because Thom Yorke says something and gets it off his chest doesn't mean I agree or even like what he has to say. It's up to each and everyone of us to digest information, weigh pros and cons, find out more, and then make an educated decision based on what we know. That's the best any of us can do…but I certainly don't encourage people to jump on a bandwagon just because musicians are trying to convince them of something.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:It's possible to do both, you know. It's possible to be human while providing a logical explanation for your position.
life should not be a bunch of people stating facts and numbers. thom was being human in his argument against what he feels is wrong.
he stated so in the end.
i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
you watch too much CNN my brother.
If one has to rely solely on emotion for their argument, then chances are there isn't any intelligent support for their argument. Since there are some decent factual arguments for opposing the WTO and Yorke chooses not to use them, he has constructed a poor article.
You spend to much time lighting candles on your Radiohead shrine my brother.
Who cares what he had to say. What was he doing in DC?
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:are you an english teacher or a debate teacher? "he has contstructed a poor article"
Originally posted by sonickteam2:It's possible to do both, you know. It's possible to be human while providing a logical explanation for your position.
life should not be a bunch of people stating facts and numbers. thom was being human in his argument against what he feels is wrong.
he stated so in the end.
i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
you watch too much CNN my brother.
If one has to rely solely on emotion for their argument, then chances are there isn't any intelligent support for their argument. Since there are some decent factual arguments for opposing the WTO and Yorke chooses not to use them, he has constructed a poor article.
You spend to much time lighting candles on your Radiohead shrine my brother.
maybe we just want his OPINION…well, or so he thinks. but really, if i wanted someones opinion, i dont care if he has facts, i can look the facts up anywhere….ok
we need to end this, the dead horse is beaten
and YEAH , what WAS he doing in DC?
Originally posted by sonickteam2:If the article was identical in every respect except it was written by Pat Buchannan or Ted Nugent or anybody else, would you feel as strongly about it? I doubt it.
maybe we just want his OPINION…well, or so he thinks. but really, if i wanted someones opinion, i dont care if he has facts, i can look the facts up anywhere….ok
Follow principles, not people.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
If the article was identical in every respect except it was written by Pat Buchannan or Ted Nugent or anybody else, would you feel as strongly about it? I doubt it.Did i ever say i was following what Thom Yorke wrote? NO. in fact, i didnt even fucking read it until you started getting on my nerves and trashing it!!! I dont like politics, especially reading articles about politics by musicians. I posted the article w/o even reading because i thought someone may find it interesting.
Follow principles, not people.
Its about politics and people in DC like that shit (reason why i dont live in DC #245)
you talk so much shit , i dont think you even pay attention to exactly what you ARE saying.
I have no opinion on the article, and i dont particularly care for Thoms thoughts on the situation. I was, however, defending that it wasnt "poor" just because it didnt have "facts"
Jeez Sonick, don't get all emotional.
Originally posted by thirsty moore:hehe. sorry
Jeez Sonick, don't get all emotional.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:Why the emphasis on "ARE" ?
you talk so much shit , i dont think you even pay attention to exactly what you ARE saying.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:When is Thom Yorke going to get another shot at writing an Op-Ed piece?
I was, however, defending that it wasnt "poor" just because it didnt have "facts"
My point was that he should have written something that was somewhat convincing and had some more meat than saying "The Western nations are shit." By not doing so, he comes across as just another empty-headed posturing rock star. I had always assumed he was smarter than that.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
well , ggw. i talked to him and he said he would try to do better next time. Do you mind if i give him your email address and maybe you can proofread it before he posts it on his own website! :)
My point was that he should have written something that was somewhat convincing and had some more meat than saying "The Western nations are shit." By not doing so, he comes across as just another empty-headed posturing rock star. I had always assumed he was smarter than that.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:Should I negotiate my fee directly with Thom? Or are you acting as his agent?
well , ggw. i talked to him and he said he would try to do better next time. Do you mind if i give him your email address and maybe you can proofread it before he posts it on his own website! :)
Thom Yorke in the pocket of the enemy……..
You know GGW's first piece of advice to Thom will be to buy a newer S-class.
You know GGW's first piece of advice to Thom will be to buy a newer S-class.