How I Feel About Northern Virginia

Yes, but if you're paying rent, you're not gaining any equity, you're simply throwing money out the window. But I think (s)he was comparing the cost of a condo (not an apartment) to the cost of a detached suburban home.

And by living in the burbs, (s)he also saves 3% on lower income taxes, meaning $1800 (or $150 per month), even if he makes a modest 60K a year.

Plus, he said he only takes 5 mins to drive to the metro. Doesn't sound like insanity or lost time to me.

And if you're the type of person who likes to go to the beach, mountains, etc frequently, you're going to need a car anyway. By choosing to live in a city without a car, you're choosing to cut yourself off from many lovely things in life, thereby cutting into your quality of life.

Originally posted by chimblysweep:

Originally posted by Skeeter:

Originally posted by brennser:
god I hate the burbs (although I won't be 35 for a few years so maybe I'll change my mind then)…everyone driving around in their little steel cages, stressed out even on weekend coz theres a trafic jam to get to the shops, cookie cutter, shoddily built homes, 2 hours commuting a day….but to each his own

will take my house in the district any day over that

well…I'll take my solid-brick, detached house with a nice yard, swimming pool, off-street parking in a nice tree-lined neighborhood, 20-minute commute and 5 minute drive to the metro over the cramped 2-bedroom condo I could get downtown for the same price. I'm not gonna give up all that just so I can have the convenience of walking everywhere.

Are you sure you're calculating the cost right? I mean, sure, you could get a 2BR in town for the cost of your suburban home, but have you considered…
The cost of your car? (Conservatively, $200/mo)
The cost of gas, insurance, parking, mainenance? (again, about $200/mo for most folks I know)
The cost of the time you spend commuting and the sanity you lose in traffic?

So, let's see… Add $400+ to your rent and that's what you could afford in the city, really.
Sure, my rent's high, but my commute is free, short, and makes it so I don't own a car.
That's priceless.

Oh, and did I mention that I can bike to 9:30? Again, free parking, no DUI concerns, no traffic issues….

Originally posted by chimblysweep:

So you NEVER leave the city then seeing as you don't have a car…well no further than the end of the metro lines anyway. [/QB]

Umm… hello? Car rental, flex car, airport, amtrak, greyhound… what more does a person need? There is absolutely no reason to own a car in such walkable, bikable, Metroable, transit hub of a city! [/QB]

Then why not include all your rental, flex car, airport, amtrak, greyhound expenses into you city living if we are supposed to include our cars into burb-life.

Did I mention my house has appreciated $50k this year and I got $4k back in taxes because of my mortgage…lets take that off my burb expenses while we're at it.

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
Yes, but if you're paying rent, you're not gaining any equity, you're simply throwing money out the window. But I think (s)he was comparing the cost of a condo (not an apartment) to the cost of a detached suburban home.

And by living in the burbs, (s)he also saves 3% on lower income taxes, meaning $1800 (or $150 per month), even if he makes a modest 60K a year.

Plus, he said he only takes 5 mins to drive to the metro. Doesn't sound like insanity or lost time to me.

And if you're the type of person who likes to go to the beach, mountains, etc frequently, you're going to need a car anyway. By choosing to live in a city without a car, you're choosing to cut yourself off from many lovely things in life, thereby cutting into your quality of life.

Ummm… y'all are just not very creative, are you?
For one, I am a condo owner. Yes indeedy, and I even got a $5000 tax credit (that's right, credit) for buying it. Rock. And if I want to go somewhere, I rent. Even two weekends a month of $25/day rentals is faaaaaar cheaper than owning a car. I go wherever I want whenever I want, only I do it cheaper.

Besides, if you want to talk about investments, let's talk about real estate returns on burbs vs. city. There will always be demand for places in decent neighborhoods of the city. This is not the case for the burbs (look at the inner burbs!) and will be even more not the case when gas prices shoot up in the next 5-10 years. (As gas gets more expensive, farther out properties will get less desirable).

Alas, I rest my case. I'll be home from work by 5:15 today, in time to bike wherever I want for happy hour, and be at the bar by 5:30. Try saying that about suburban living…

Seems you live in the city so you can be in walking/cycling distance to a bar…..one day at a time, one day at a time.

If it's so great to live in the city why is DC losing residents at such an alarming rate?

Originally posted by mankie:

If it's so great to live in the city why is DC losing residents at such an alarming rate?

making room for starbucks

Originally posted by mankie:

If it's so great to live in the city why is DC losing residents at such an alarming rate?

I'd have to say because of the schools… if you're middle class with kids, you can't afford private and you don't want DCPS, so you move out.

Though if I had kids I'd probably go the DCPS route… diversity in education is really important.

solid-brick, detached house with a nice yard, swimming pool, off-street parking in a nice tree-lined neighborhood, 20-minute commute and 5 minute drive to the metro

wait, how did you know thats where I live in DC!

Originally posted by chimblysweep:
Are you sure you're calculating the cost right? I mean, sure, you could get a 2BR in town for the cost of your suburban home, but have you considered…
The cost of your car? (Conservatively, $200/mo)
The cost of gas, insurance, parking, mainenance? (again, about $200/mo for most folks I know)
The cost of the time you spend commuting and the sanity you lose in traffic?

So, let's see… Add $400+ to your rent and that's what you could afford in the city, really.
Sure, my rent's high, but my commute is free, short, and makes it so I don't own a car.
That's priceless.

Oh, and did I mention that I can bike to 9:30? Again, free parking, no DUI concerns, no traffic issues….

I like to travel too much to go without a car, so I'm going to have that expense no matter what. I imagine the cost of car insurance would go up quite a bit if I moved to the city. Parking is free where I live and work. Even if I dropped the car, I doubt an extra $400 would get me everything I listed above. As for the commute, it's usually only 20-minutes each way. I don't mind that at all.

Of course, I'd love to be closer to the clubs. You definitely win that one. It's just not worth giving up everything else for that.

How much diversity is there if 85% of the kids are African-American, 14% Hispanic, and 1% Caucasian (made up numbers, but I can't believe it would be far from the truth)?…and 99% of the schools suck?

Originally posted by chimblysweep:

Originally posted by mankie:

If it's so great to live in the city why is DC losing residents at such an alarming rate?

I'd have to say because of the schools… if you're middle class with kids, you can't afford private and you don't want DCPS, so you move out.

Though if I had kids I'd probably go the DCPS route… diversity in education is really important.

Did I mention my house has appreciated $50k this year and I got $4k back in taxes because of my mortgage…lets take that off my burb expenses while we're at it.

shit I feel so cheated - I completely forgot that its only houses in the suburbs that appreciate and only houses in the suburbs where you can deduct mortgage interest :mad:

what was I thinking when I bought a house in DC!!!!

why the constant debate about city vs. suburbs, I live in the city because I love the city, other people live elsewhere because they like that (I don't know why, but they do)

surprisingly, people have different priorities, who'd a thunk

if you want to debate other issues about how suburban sprawl is horrible and how it could be better, go ahead, but city vs. suburbs debate is not going anywhere

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
How much diversity is there if 85% of the kids are African-American, 14% Hispanic, and 1% Caucasian (made up numbers, but I can't believe it would be far from the truth)?…and 99% of the schools suck?

Um, I think you have a closed-minded view of DCPS. Remember, there are as many National Merit Scholars coming out of Wilson as there are coming out of Sidwell.

The one thing I haven't mentioned yet about this debate is air quality…
I'm an asthmatic and air pollution has a big effect on how long I live. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me in this region. The number one source of air pollution in our region is "non-point source pollution," i.e. cars and trucks. I personally view people who "choose" to live in the burbs and drive to work, when there are so many non-driving alternatives, as the reason I can't go jogging in August. And that sucks.

If you bought a house in DC the size that Mankie did on Aspen Hill, complete with a yard the same size, you probably paid twice what he did.

Originally posted by brennser:

Did I mention my house has appreciated $50k this year and I got $4k back in taxes because of my mortgage…lets take that off my burb expenses while we're at it.

shit I feel so cheated - I completely forgot that its only houses in the suburbs that appreciate and only houses in the suburbs where you can deduct mortgage interest :mad:

what was I thinking when I bought a house in DC!!!!

Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
But I think (s)he was comparing
…
And by living in the burbs, (s)he also saves
…

ummm - I'm most definitely a "he".

If you bought a house in DC the size that Mankie did on Aspen Hill, complete with a yard the same size, you probably paid twice what he did.

and your point is?

If it's so great to live in the city why is DC losing residents at such an alarming rate?

US Census 2002 Total Population Estimate 570,898

US Census 2001 Total Population Estimate 573,822

US Census 2000 Total Population 571,641

yeah, I'm definitely alarmed!

surprisingly, people have different priorities, who'd a thunk

if you want to debate other issues about how suburban sprawl is horrible and how it could be better, go ahead, but city vs. suburbs debate is not going anywhere

agree with you 100% pollard - what I object to is the inference that people who decide to subject themselves to life in the burbs are somehow more enlightened than those of us who coose to live in the city

Those of us with modest incomes who want a modest sized, detached, single family home with a yard have no choice but to buy a house in the burbs as opposed to buying the same house in DC.

If you can afford a single family, detached home with a yard in the district, you've either got a damn good paying job, or a damn handy trust fund.

Originally posted by brennser:

If you bought a house in DC the size that Mankie did on Aspen Hill, complete with a yard the same size, you probably paid twice what he did.

and your point is?

Originally posted by brennser:

surprisingly, people have different priorities, who'd a thunk

if you want to debate other issues about how suburban sprawl is horrible and how it could be better, go ahead, but city vs. suburbs debate is not going anywhere

agree with you 100% pollard - what I object to is the inference that people who decide to subject themselves to life in the burbs are somehow more enlightened than those of us who coose to live in the city

And the city-slickers consider themselves ultra-cool-trendy-hipsters, when some are just transplanted boggers!
;)

What I find laughable is how some people prioritize their lives based on how many bars and music venues are within walking distance of where they live. As if there aren't a million other things to do in the world. But I guess that's normal for 20-somethings.

Originally posted by brennser:

surprisingly, people have different priorities, who'd a thunk

if you want to debate other issues about how suburban sprawl is horrible and how it could be better, go ahead, but city vs. suburbs debate is not going anywhere

agree with you 100% pollard - what I object to is the inference that people who decide to subject themselves to life in the burbs are somehow more enlightened than those of us who coose to live in the city