nobody died when Clinton lied...

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
i guess vince foster was just collateral damage.

What does Courteny Love's murder of Vince Foster have to do with any of this?

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
vince foster was in the middle of a clinton lie, and is dead.

vince foster wore pants, and is dead.

Originally posted by sonickteam2:

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:

Originally posted by Barcelona:
Get ready to be called unpatriotic and almost terrorist by a surprisingly high number of board members.

Nah, we'd rather talk about Spain giving in to the terrorists. Thats much funner.

Is Spain in the "axis of evil" too now? bomb those damn spaniards!

Maybe it will be enough if they you just bomb José Maria Aznar and the rest of the Popular Party who lied to the whole country for electoral purposes. That is sad, but very much in line with the Republican Party acts, lies, lies, and lies.

Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
hitman, Venerable Bede was referring to Vince Foster's suicide. He's a guy who headed the travel office under Clinton, and he was clinically depressed. A lot of right-wing conspiracy theorist types think it was something more sinister. They also believe aliens landed at Roswell.

Thanks DD. That's what I thought was being referred to, but wasn't positive. I also enjoy how right-wingers get so caught up in little shit, and will continue to harp on that, and not see the big picture. I guess getting blown by another woman while being married, and lying about it (which let's face it, any man would do, and there's evidently never been a republican who had character flaws) is just as bad as taking the whole country down because you invaded someplace that had nothing to do with 9/11.

Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
right-wingers are so morally bankrupt that they somehow think Clinton's shady real estate deals were worse than Bush's lying to get the country into a war which has killed 1000+ Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis.

& this only includes civilians:
body count

Who knows how many *soldiers* have died:
casualties

and we vilify serial killers for only killing 20-30. ;)

talk about morally bankrupt, lying is still lying. you can't pick and choose which morals are worth upholding and which aren't.

In Congress, the impeachment was overseen by Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Illinois),
whose own eight-year affair had ruined another woman's marriage. Hyde brushed this off as a "youthful indiscretion"; it happened when he was in his forties.

Rep. Dan Burton (R-Indiana) also led calls for Clinton's head; he once called the president a "scumbag." Burton advocated the death penalty for drug dealers and helped push mandatory minimum sentences for drug dealing through
Congress. He steadfastly supported mandatory minimums until his son was arrested–twice–for possession with intent to distribute. At that point Burton forgot about law and order and got his son a polite slap on the wrist. To be
clear, I'm talking about Burton's "real" son. He also has an illegitimate son from a long-term affair.

Bob Dole. Newt Gingrich. Bob Livingston. All moralizing impeachment supporters; all adulterers. John Fund, the Wall Street Journal editorial writer who crusaded for Clinton's impeachment, got himself into a weird love triangle with a woman and her daughter, and after impregnating the daughter helped her get an abortion. And let's not forget Bob Barr, another Bible-thumping impeacher. Barr's second wife was his secretary; he had her unknowingly arrange his trysts with his mistress, who later became his third wife. This was after he encouraged the second wife to get an abortion. But Bob Barr never committed perjury! At his divorce proceedings, confronted with repeated questions about the abortion and his affair, he simply refused to answer.

Clinton wasn't impeached for fooling around. He was impeached for perjury - for lying under oath.

Details, details, details…….

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Clinton wasn't impeached for fooling around. He was impeached for perjury - for lying under oath.

Details, details, details…….

Good thing Bush wasn't under oath when he outlined his rationale for going to war.

Very good thing State of the Union addresses aren't under oath. Seriously. We could impeach every president.

By the way, I heart Brennser!

If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.

He not only fooled the entire U.S. intelligence community, he also hoodwinked British intelligence, German intelligence, John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, etc…

Wow! W is a fucking superhero with mind control powers.

Maybe coke is still his kryptonite.

Originally posted by grotty:

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Clinton wasn't impeached for fooling around. He was impeached for perjury - for lying under oath.

Details, details, details…….

Good thing Bush wasn't under oath when he outlined his rationale for going to war.

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.

Maybe he is then:

"So what happened? How did Bush & Cheney get it so wrong? There are only two possibilities. Either they didn't understand the intelligence they were given, or they willfully cherry-picked through the intelligence in order to make the strongest case possible for war. In other words, they were either incompetent or dishonest. Either way, Bush is responsible."

-Bill Press
Bush Must Go

*that's* the reason he will not get my vote. It wouldn't matter if he was democrat, repub, libert, communist, or martian.

Originally posted by grotty:
Maybe he is then:

"So what happened? How did Bush & Cheney get it so wrong? There are only two possibilities. Either they didn't understand the intelligence they were given, or they willfully cherry-picked through the intelligence in order to make the strongest case possible for war. In other words, they were either incompetent or dishonest. Either way, Bush is responsible."

-Bill Press
Bush Must Go

dude, i wouldn't take my political opinions from bill press, that would be like me taking my opinions from rush (which i don't, although some of his ties were nice). . .anyway, the either/or proposition has been thrown out the window by derrida and the deconstructionists.

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.

Well he didn't fool everyone base on this documentary, which is a must see IMHO

<img src="http://www.truthuncovered.com/images/uncoveredlogosm.jpg" alt=" - " />

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

dude, i wouldn't take my political opinions from bill press[/QB]

**************************

I agree & I don't. It's just a nice concise summary of what I view as the bottomline. And I had to give him credit.

Bush is ultimately responsible for making a poor misguided decision to go war. A war that has killed 1,000s, including over 1,000 Americans since Bush declared 'victory'. And he's showing a startling inability or unwillingness to clean up the mess that he made.

There's no getting around the argument here. He either lied or made a HUGE mistake. CEO's get fired for less. So should a president.

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Clinton wasn't impeached for fooling around. He was impeached for perjury - for lying under oath.

Details, details, details…….

that still in no way compares to being responsible for killing tens of thousands, and your insistence that it does again illustrates my point that conservatives are unable to grasp big issues.

I guess I'd better repeat it again to get it through a couple of the thicker skulls here: nobody died when Clinton lied. Perjury over a BJ still doesn't kill anyone.

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.

He not only fooled the entire U.S. intelligence community, he also hoodwinked British intelligence, German intelligence, John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, etc…

Wow! W is a fucking superhero with mind control powers.

Maybe coke is still his kryptonite.

Changing the subject a bit, but:

ggw, you seem intelligent and thoughtful. Our opinions on the upcoming vote differ. Much like mine do with many other people I know. The question I have that I can't get answered from any of them regarding their intent to vote for Bush though is WHY?

Throw out party affiliation. What are the good reasons for voting for him? I'm being serious & want to have a balanced thoughtful process on this. But I can't come up with ANYTHING. I'm not normally strongly affiliated with any party or even usually very political. This just has me so intensely concerned.

Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?

I think perhaps the answer is, as Mankie and Markie have been saying all along…is that Americans are stupid (or at least 50% of them).

Damn, it hurts to have to admit that Mankie was right about something.

Originally posted by grotty:

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
If he was lying - he is the most brilliant con artist ever.

He not only fooled the entire U.S. intelligence community, he also hoodwinked British intelligence, German intelligence, John Kerry, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, etc…

Wow! W is a fucking superhero with mind control powers.

Maybe coke is still his kryptonite.

Changing the subject a bit, but:

ggw, you seem intelligent and thoughtful. Our opinions on the upcoming vote differ. Much like mine do with many other people I know. The question I have that I can't get answered from any of them regarding their intent to vote for Bush though is WHY? Throw out party affiliation.
Are there good reasons for voting for him? I'm being serious &amp; want to have a balanced thought process on this. But I can't come up with ANYTHING. I'm not normally strongly affiliated with any party or even usually very political. This just has me so intensely concerned.

Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?

Originally posted by grotty:


Why are ~ 50% of Americans actually going to vote for him?

just to nitpick, make that 50% of people who actually vote

I don't think he made a misguided decision to go to war. There are plenty of people - on both sides of the proverbial political fence - who acknowledge that, at the time, the intelligence on Iraq pointed to continuing WMD programs.

The argument against going to war, at the time, was not based on the belief that there were no WMDs in Iraq, it was based on the belief that increased inspections would be enough to contain Iraq. That fact seems to be conveniently forgotten and people act as though the rest of the world was claiming that the WMD didn't exist.

Alternatively, many people who spend the majority of their time talking about Bush being a complete and utter moron who can't utter a complete sentence, conclude that Bush was lying and, despite having an IQ below 100, that he was able to pull of the greatest con job in U.S. political history, fooling Gore, Kerry, and every last one of his fiercest political opponents, as well as German intelligence, who concluded that Iraq could have a bomb in three years, and British intelligence. Even Chirac stated that Iraq was building weapons.

The problem, in my opinion, was not in those "reasons" for war, but in the absolutely horrible execution of the war. The administration went with the Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz "war on the cheap" philosophy rather than the Powell "overwhelming force" method, which would likely have avoided the casualties we are seeing now.

So if you want to lambaste Bush for mismanagement of the Iraq war, go right ahead. You won't get an argument from me.

But when people continuously parrot trite crap like "Bush's war for his Daddy" they simply come across as partisan crackpots who are no different than those who found Vince Foster's death to be just one of a hundred murders committed by Clinton.

That's why Bush is still showing strength in the polls. It's not that Bush is unabashedly loved by the majority of Americans, it's that the misguided, misinformed nonsense being spewed forth by the activist left frightens people away from Kerry.

Originally posted by grotty:
CEO's get fired for less.

You know I agree with you, grotty….

But, CEO's actually get bonuses and/or huge exit packages for fucking up this much….It's sick.