Critics Question the Fillmore Plans

Originally posted by 930clubber:
which do you prefer? a national entertainment conglomerate injecting competition into a small market or having a local oligopoly grow even stronger? however you choose to spin it, this is a dance-off between two relatively big parties.

Dude, we're not logical around here. Take this reasoning elsewhere! :mad:

you know…

I'm really not saying "choose me, choose me!"

the point is it shouldn't be handed to anyone…there should be a process

if, ultimately, after that, people decide it's better to have someone else do it for whatever reason, I won't like it but I won't cry foul

but I am telling you guys…people start fighting over bands, tickets go up

The Institute for Independent Music has a quick and easy way to voice your support to open the process and take bids from all companies. Check it out - and send it to everyone you know. It takes 3 seconds, tops.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ifimusic/petition.html

Halliburton in Iraq shows how imperious democratic governments can be in contracting with the private sector. It wasn't until years after the first contracts when the Dems came to regained power in Congress that checks began to applied.

Ticket prices could go up, or more bands will fill the capacity.

M.I.A. played 930 for $25. She played the Wiltern in LA a few weeks earlier for the same ticket price despite that market being much, much larger and having more venues. More venues bid for more bands, ie more venues is a signal for bands making tour dates to consider DC when they otherwise might not.

I'm not in the biz, but I have a feeling that pollstar data subscriptions make all venue operators part of a global pricing village.

But as Seth says, let the chips fall where they may, but let it be the result of a process, preferably a good one.

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
you know…

I'm really not saying "choose me, choose me!"

the point is it shouldn't be handed to anyone…there should be a process

if, ultimately, after that, people decide it's better to have someone else do it for whatever reason, I won't like it but I won't cry foul

but I am telling you guys…people start fighting over bands, tickets go up

but I am telling you guys…people start fighting over bands, tickets go up

That's the one thing I disagree with.
Supply and demand rules. Whatever the audience will pay, that's how prices are set now and that's how prices will be set if there were more venues competing.

I think you have to look at supply and demand differently. The clubs are demanding and the bands are supplying. If the demand increases (because there are more clubs) while supply holds steady (because the supply of bands does not increase) then the price goes up.

Ticket prices don't reflect the demand of concertgoers. If they did, scalping wouldn't really exist.

Originally posted by Stairmaster E:

but I am telling you guys…people start fighting over bands, tickets go up

That's the one thing I disagree with.
Supply and demand rules. Whatever the audience will pay, that's how prices are set now and that's how prices will be set if there were more venues competing.

depends on how you slice supply. a very unique act – small supply – might see itself benefiting from higher ticket prices via bidding from more venues. but how many acts are unique in that way?

again, M.I.A. sold out in DC for $25. tix sold for a show the same month in LA, a market at least five times our size, for exactly the same price. how do you armchair economists explain that?

M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent

the vast majority are not

go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head…these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter

If the demand increases (because there are more clubs) while supply holds steady (because the supply of bands does not increase) then the price goes up.

You mean the price goes up for the venue, but only if they're bidding on the same acts. Doesn't change tix prices though. If they can charge $10 more and people will pay it, they will anyway.
In practice, the venue can't stay in business if they keep bidding higher than what they foresee breaking even on, except maybe for an occassional prestige event. And the prices are already set at that level. It isn't an exact science, but obviously someone is making an educated guess about the maximum they can charge without turning away very many people who'd want to go.

Ticket prices don't reflect the demand of concertgoers. If they did, scalping wouldn't really exist.

No, if there's a lot of scalping for a show, it just means that the educated guess by the person setting the ticket price was low. So if there were a lot of quick sold-outs on a tour, prices may be set higher on the next one to cash in on the high demand

Even if ticket prices don't rise, i'm willing to bet that service fees will be higher, extra venue fees, and a barrage of sponsorship will greet people attending shows at this club. Will they even bother to operate a box office during the day selling tickets without the surchanges. Remember this is the outfit that would charge the Ticketmaster fees for same day ticket sales at Merriweather.

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent

the vast majority are not

go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head…these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter

What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head.

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent

the vast majority are not

go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head…these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter

What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head.

Markets have a lot to do with ticket prices. Washington, DC is considered an A market and Baltimore a B market. There's far less competition for shows between Baltimore and DC because many bands will either choose one market or decide to play both. A venue in Silver Spring however, will compete directly with 9:30 for the same shows and it is far more likely to drive up ticket prices.

All that said though, it doesn't matter. For me, as a Maryland resident I'm furious that the elected officials refuse to allow open bidding for the planned venue and have commited $8 million in our tax-payer dollars to subsidize a project for a huge corporate player like Live Nation when other parties (like Seth) are clearly offering to save millions of those proposed tax-payer dollars.

Rasputina will play Music Hall of Williamsburg for $18. $20 at 930. Patti Smith is $25 here but $40 at the Bowery Ballroom.

Some unique acts may benefit from bidding wars that drive up their ticket prices while others benefit simply by having more capacity. Chromeo is an example of the latter. There's too many acts like Chromeo that don't come to DC when they do play NYC or LA or whatever because they have the capacity. It remains to be seen whether Live Nation will expand representation of acts here or blindly compete for every act on the 930 booking list. My guess is that answer is somewhere in between.

Originally posted by Shadrach:

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent

the vast majority are not

go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head…these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter

What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head.

Markets have a lot to do with ticket prices. Washington, DC is considered an A market and Baltimore a B market. There's far less competition for shows between Baltimore and DC because many bands will either choose one market or decide to play both. A venue in Silver Spring however, will compete directly with 9:30 for the same shows and it is far more likely to drive up ticket prices.

All that said though, it doesn't matter. For me, as a Maryland resident I'm furious that the elected officials refuse to allow open bidding for the planned venue and have commited $8 million in our tax-payer dollars to subsidize a project for a huge corporate player like Live Nation when other parties (like Seth) are clearly offering to save millions of those proposed tax-payer dollars.

Could Chromeo even fill up the black cat?

here's a perfect example:

Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion…would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay

Ram's Head gave it to them

Tickets are $30/35

no doubt for some popular acts, prices will go up.

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion…would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay

Ram's Head gave it to them

Tickets are $30/35

<temporary threadjack alert>
just found out that this will supposedly be ministry's farewell tour. tix for b'more are $30 + fees on TM, other tour dates here ($53.50 + fees for NYC!).
</threadjack>

So what you're saying is that they're getting the extra five bucks because it's their farewell tour?

On a side note, can I do a 9:30 board farewell tour and collect $5 from each of the 10,000 or so members?

Originally posted by sweetcell:

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion…would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay

Ram's Head gave it to them

Tickets are $30/35

&lt;temporary threadjack alert&gt;
just found out that this will supposedly be ministry's farewell tour. tix for b'more are $30 + fees on TM, other tour dates here ($53.50 + fees for NYC!).
&lt;/threadjack&gt;

Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Could Chromeo even fill up the black cat?

they've just added a second night in NYC at the bowery, after having sold out the first. much bigger market, i know, but just sayin'. and no, i have no idea who chromeo is/are, just noticed this in a newsletter.

Panda Bear filled up 2 Bowery shows and barely sold out the ottobar.


I think Chromeo would be lucky to fill up the BC.

P.S. You'd probably like Chromeo.


Edit2: Had RNRH on the brain. Oops.