Ticketmaster/Live Nation near merger (Wall Street Journal)

Seth wrote:

Driveway wrote:
Seth has already said he won't  care about high ticket prices until people stop coming. 

when did I say that

Isn't that what vote with your wallet means?

that means that the laws of supply & demand will either support high ticket prices or bring them down

it doesn't mean I don't care…it means that as long as people are willing to pay it, the bands will think it's ok

the problem with this merger is that neither of those entities have had any concern with supply & demand…they force their vision of economics on the world, and don't read the signs how it's working

the purpose of the merger is the last step to finally control everything, forcing independent promoters to match their offers if they want to even be close to being in the game

I am all for competition, believe it or not…it's what forced us to build the 930, create a better amphitheatre, book the best festival we can, etc

what I am against is government subsidies (Silver Spring), and monopoly power that forces a false economy on people instead of the laws of supply & demand

people should not be angry when they go to concerts

and if you don't like it now, it's going to get worse than you can imagine if this merger goes thru

speak up or don't complain:

<a href="mailto:antitrust.complaints@usdoj.gov?subject=Stop the Ticketmaster/Live Nation Merger&bcc=stopmerger@930.com">antitrust.complaints@usdoj.gov</a>

Seth wrote:

the problem with this merger is that neither of those entities have had any concern with supply &amp; demand…they force their vision of economics on the world, and don&#039;t read the signs how it&#039;s working

with this i can agree.

I think that if you want to mobilize your customers and music fans in general, you need to make it easier to register a complaint.  Set up an online letter-writing campaign the way moveon.org does it making it easier for people to send out a form letter, adjust anything they want to, and make it easy for them to send the letter to the right place.  Hipsters are lazy.  They don't like this merger business, but not enough to actually write a letter!  ;)

Driveway wrote:
I hate ticketmaster and livenation… but, practice what you preach.

Agreed.  The best way to lead is by example.

vansmack wrote:
In the last 12 years, since Live Nation and its predecessor started its widespread takeover of the concert industry, concert ticket prices have shot up 82% while the consumer price index has gone up just 17%*.

Oh, so a monopoly drives up prices. Unless we're discussing you having a competing venue in your backyard, in which case competition drives up prices, right? So… which is it Seth?

genuine competition, without government subsidy or monopoly, keeps prices down…that used to be part of the competition process

when the laws of supply & demand are eliminated by false economics (government subsidy or monopoly), there is no longer that criteria, and offers are made with the simple intention of getting the show booked…in this case to have the grosses to report as "revenue"…without worrying about how the bottom line turns out

I have never, and will never, complain or do anything to stop anyone from competing on a level playing field

Just out of curiosity, How do you feel about Wolf Trap?

Seth, who at 930 is reading the BCCs that are going to the stopmerger mail box?

Driveway wrote:
Just out of curiosity, How do you feel about Wolf Trap?

they do a fantastic job, and I never cry foul when they get a show I wanted

plus, Peter Zimmerman, the guy who books it, couldn't be a nicer person

I also feel the same way about the Birchmere, and the Black Cat…they work hard and do honest business, which is good for everybody

when people have a good time & don't feel ripped off, they want to go to more shows

now…there are some people you just can't please…those were the ones I was speaking to when I said stay the fuck home

and then there are some who clearly have an agenda of calling me out for having an agenda

Haven't posted on here in a long time. 

I also no longer have a personal interest in the Ticketmaster/Live Nation issue (no longer in that line of work).  I have my own feelings on the merger, largely colored by my experience with the company. But this jumped out at me, given the 9:30's email this week, pushing people to http://ticketdisaster.org/

Bringing up the website, the first thing listed in the "About Us" section is:

The National Association of Ticket Brokers, formed in 1994, is the non-profit trade association dedicated to protecting consumers and the secondary ticket market. For more information on NATB and consumer protection efforts, please visit www.NATB.org.

Given the repeated statements against the secondary ticket market that have come on this board and from the club (like, say, here: http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=18687.0), this seems like a marriage of convenience that is a bit questionable.

What's more:

Seth wrote:

Driveway wrote:
Seth has already said he won&#039;t&nbsp; care about high ticket prices until people stop coming.&nbsp;

when did I say that

Well, right here:

http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=18687.msg277131#msg277131

Seth wrote:
OK let me revise that

this would be like someone buying the remaining guiness

anyway, point is, I am a capitalist and will charge you as much for a beer as I think I can get away with, before too many people get pissed off…same with tickets

but I would like to be the one setting those prices in my businesses, not someone else

and I have zero concern for people that categorically whine about prices going up, because those people have zero concern about my financial picture

Ultimately, I don't have a problem with Seth or the club being against the merger - it makes perfect business sense.  I love the 9:30 Club and what it brings to the city.  But at least be upfront with everybody about the motivations: it is about money, plain and simple.  Backing the website set up by the National Association of Ticket Brokers seems perfectly in line with that fact, despite past statements on the secondary ticket market.

The merger impacts the bottom line.  Like Seth said: he's a capitalist.  This objection is about capitalism.

capitalism as achieved by fair market competition

Seth wrote:
capitalism as achieved by fair market competition

That's a great concept.  But who tells the bands that?  Each band, essentially, is a monopoly.  There is only one of them.  Who tells a band they're not worth what they want - especially now that they've seen other bands make coin hand over fist for years on end?  How do you drive prices down without having people that stand up and say no to the asking prices of touring artists who CAN get the ticket prices that they want?  And given an industry is so built upon relationships - leveraged by agents with enormous power and sway over artist rosters - how do you say no without risking impacts on the rest of your business?

What's more, how do you meet the expectations of fans that now demand spectacles like U2360?  How do you meet the rising production costs associated with big tours without raising ticket prices?  I know that this isn't as true in the club world - but the big shows still make the biggest splash on everyone's bottom line.

Shows still sell out.  People still go.  The true fair market the one between the bands and the fans.  And if fans are willing to pay, what motivation (outside of the goodness of their hearts) do bands have to lower their prices?  Especially given the fact that their revenue streams outside of touring are drying up left and right?

Hypothetically, can't you make the argument that a bigger promotions company (like Live Nation/Ticketmaster) has more clout to say "no" on raising ticket prices, especially if they can offer to increase artist revenue stream in other ways, like merchandising or downloads or whatever else?  I'm not saying I necessarily believe this to be true - but there is certainly a case to be made for it.

I have very, very mixed feelings on the idea of the merger for a lot of reasons - but the issue is definitely not as simple as "Live Nation and Ticketmaster are raising prices."  Bands, agents, managers, promoters, fans - everybody is involved in ticket prices going up.

that's true, but this will leave it up to them to decide

and they have have a pretty clear pattern of behavior if left to their own devices

my recollection of antitrust law is admittedly rather vague, but i don't understand how this isn't textbook monopoly.   creating dominating market share/control and using the power that allows to artifically destroy competitive environment, using contol of one part of the chain to control other parts of the chain . . .bundling. 

if the DOJ lets it slide its a f*cking travesty

Mobius wrote:
my recollection of antitrust law is admittedly rather vague, but i don&#039;t understand how this isn&#039;t textbook monopoly.&nbsp; &nbsp;creating dominating market share/control and using the power that allows to artifically destroy competitive environment, using contol of one part of the chain to control other parts of the chain . . .bundling.&nbsp;

if the DOJ lets it slide its a f*cking travesty

Agreed.  I just wish the press release focused more on the real issue (the uneven slant) instead of ticket prices.  The state of ticket prices is clearly not the issue here (at the moment).

Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion.  I don't see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us…

I second the notion for a form letter with an option to edit.  It would probably double the amount of comments sent ot the DOJ.

Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion.  I don't see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us…





Yeah why aren't the Live Nation reps on the 930 board talking to us? WTF!

Driveway wrote:
Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion.&nbsp; I don&#039;t see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us…

LOL, are you 12?

I know this guy is telling us his completely biased, self-serving side of the story here in HIS sandbox… but PROPS FOR DOING IT!!

Julian, wrote:

Driveway wrote:
Anywho, props to Seth for coming to the forum for this discussion.&nbsp; I don&#039;t see anyone from Live Nation or Ticketmaster out here talking to us…

LOL, are you 12?

I know this guy is telling us his completely biased, self-serving side of the story here in HIS sandbox… but PROPS FOR DOING IT!!

You seem a little jaded.  I'm sorry about that.

I hate to dredge this thread up but…..

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5311464-ric-grenell-live-nation-board-trump-doj-ticketmaster-antitrust/