My position on scalping...

Chip wrote:

Doctor wrote:
I haven't been to Ireland for a long time, but I'm guessing Irish people with taste don't walk into a pub and order Guiness any more than self-respecting Australians order Foster's.

I spent a year over there in 94/95 and from my memory most people drank either Budweiser or Guinness. I was pretty surprised about the Budweiser.

when i lived there in '02 i saw as many budweiser and heineken taps as guinness … and the budweiser tasted a lot better in ireland ;)

btw, going back to dublin for a long weekend in may… anyone been there recently and can recommend any hot spots?

kosmo wrote:
thinking about using the split topic function at this moment..

yes, well, we've gone from scalping to guiness & Tyler Hansbrough

Let's say a stamp collector buys a postage stamp, and a month later, for whatever reason, he finds that there are people willing to give him five times the amount of money he paid for the stamp. He decides to sell the stamp to the highest bidder.

Should he be thrown in jail?

Not sure why I'm bothering to waste my time explaining this, as I'm sure you fully understand the difference, but one last post and then I will assume that you just like saying you gave me shit:

this would be like someone buying up all the remaining stamps, and then standing outside the post office and offering to sell all of the people that couldn't mail a letter stamps at twice the price

I think that if they limited the resale value of tickets, if not to zero increase, it would end this whole problem

and I do think it's a problem

I think the real point is that its hard for the concert goer to take sympathy here.

You pay Band X $10,000 to play at the club and then charge 1000 people $25 to get in to see them.

you are charging a premium to make a profit because you have the resources to have a band play at your club.  So when someone else has the resources to buy 100 tickets and sell them for his own profit, I dont see the difference. 

I realize that you do, because you're in that business whereas, despite working at clubs, I am not really in that business.

Sometimes it doesnt matter who's ripping us off! 

As for the stamps analogy, or any other one, it never works. You are thinking like the seller and we are thinking like the buyer.  Why should the post office be the only one to profit frmo stamps.  that doesnt sound capitalist!

Besides, you own venues, therefore, you stand in a position to do something about scalping. It may cut into your profit, and it may not be much, but its more than we can do out here!

More importantly than all of this scalper talk…are we going to get an area Wilco appearance this summer?

HoyaSaxa03 wrote:

Chip wrote:

Doctor wrote:
I haven't been to Ireland for a long time, but I'm guessing Irish people with taste don't walk into a pub and order Guiness any more than self-respecting Australians order Foster's.

I spent a year over there in 94/95 and from my memory most people drank either Budweiser or Guinness. I was pretty surprised about the Budweiser.

when i lived there in '02 i saw as many budweiser and heineken taps as guinness … and the budweiser tasted a lot better in ireland ;)

btw, going back to dublin for a long weekend in may… anyone been there recently and can recommend any hot spots?

I was there last year, they definitely still drink Guinness. I think the number they stated was 4 million gallons made - 2 mil are sold (consumed) in Ireland.
(don't know what this info is worth, but there is a large Bud sign in the city centre).
Hoya, I'm not sure what is new since you lived there, but I can drum up a list of venues (I saved many papers) to visit. Although, Pollstar / TM list clubs…You are lucky, summer is a great time there. Other cities get a lot of music these days too. (wish I could go to Oxegen Festival). Enjoy!

Yeah, this whole "you're buying ALL the stamps" argument is so weak it's embarrassing. The outrage this board has towards scalping would be applause if the exact same principle is applied to anything else.

And the whole "I have the right to decide the prices as it relates to my business" is the most myopic thing in the entire thread. Hey guy, you do, and you know what, if scalpers buy up "all the tickets" (which is an absurd misnomer) then the price YOU set for YOUR business was met. You should be thrilled. But then someone else is going to decide the price for THEIR resale business.

Charlie wrote:
This coming from the guy who buys a can of Guinness for $2 and resells it for $9.

That's rich, bro. Real fucking rich.  ;D

Seth wrote:
I think it sucks and they ought to make it illegal

in the meantime, they should find out how these people are getting the tickets

Ha

Julian, wrote:
Yeah, this whole "you're buying ALL the stamps" argument is so weak it's embarrassing.

absolutely correct - equating concert tickets with stamps is ridiculous and incorrect.

some ways in which beer (or a postage stamp) isn't like a concert ticket:
- there is a virtually unlimited supply of beer (and postage stamps).  bars can order more if they start to run out, any shortage is temporary.  concert tickets are in limited supply.  once they're gone, that's it.
- beer is a physical good that you enjoy immediately - it's value is intrinsic.  a concert ticket has no intrinsic value, it's a piece of paper.  the value that it represents is a license to attend an event.  you can dictate the terms of a license - for example, you're not allowed re-selling cable no matter what price the cable company charges you for it.

back wrote:
I think the real point is that its hard for the concert goer to take sympathy here.

You pay Band X $10,000 to play at the club and then charge 1000 people $25 to get in to see them.

you are charging a premium to make a profit because you have the resources to have a band play at your club.  So when someone else has the resources to buy 100 tickets and sell them for his own profit, I dont see the difference. 

there are many differences: seth & the artists have a contract and have leverage over each other.  if a band doesn't like how seth sells his tickets, they can choose not to do business with him.  if either party has a problem with the other, they have recourse to courts.  the scalper is outside all this.  from a strategic point of view, the band and the club are also trying to establish a long-term relationship with their client base.  the scalper is interested in a one-time sale.

BTW, sonick, are you implying that capitalism is bad?  that as soon as anyone charges more than what they pay, it's scalping?!?

I am saying that scalping is capitalism.  and for someone who champions capitalism on a regular basis (Seth) its odd that scalping would be such an issue.

I did not say what my opinion on capitalism was, though ;)

i was in ireland last summer. guinness is plentiful, but of course in the west murphy's rules the world

sweetcell wrote:

there are many differences: seth & the artists have a contract and have leverage over each other.  if a band doesn't like how seth sells his tickets, they can choose not to do business with him.  if either party has a problem with the other, they have recourse to courts.  the scalper is outside all this.  from a strategic point of view, the band and the club are also trying to establish a long-term relationship with their client base.  the scalper is interested in a one-time sale.

when i said "i dont see the difference" i was referring to the difference regarding the consumer. i'm spending my money for the same purpose either way.  

the point is , some shows are over priced and dont sell out, some shows are underpriced and result in scalpers.

If wal-mart started selling Wii's for $50, people would buy them up and wait til they were sold out….then sell them for $100.  is that scalping or capitalism?

Seth wrote:
in the meantime, they should find out how these people are getting the tickets

This is the crux of the problem.  People are gaming the system and either the original ticket distributors are unable, unwilling or working in conjunction with the scalpers to enable this behavior.

I can assure you people are not showing up at the 9:30 Club box office and buying 80 pairs of tickets to redistribute.

So we've heard from the fans that they're angry about it, though the voice is muted.  Some artists have tried different ploys to get around it.  What are the promoters doing about it?

vansmack wrote:
What are the promoters doing about it?

or the ticket agencies! ticketmaster and tickets.com use the captcha stuff but they've been using that for like 10 years, plenty of time for someone to figure a way around it.

artists can try to foil scalpers but run the risk of alienating fanbase
promoters can try to foil scalpers but run the risk of losing customers
ticketing companies can try to foil scalpers but run the risk of higher overhead
ticket consumers can try to foil scalpers but run the risk of missing a show they wanted to see

sounds like the prisoner's dilemma to me.

back wrote:
or the ticket agencies!

They're joining the scalpers because they'll be damned if somebody makes money on their product and they're not part of it.  That's why Ticketmaster bought ticketsnow.com - a very popular ticket scalping site.

and if people just wake up and realize that these things are merely concerts, which mean little to nothing in the grand scheme of things called surviving on this planet, the artists suffer as their shows become less and less attended by a generation attempting to make a statement against scalpers by boycotting shows altogether.  perhaps virtual reality concerts will become the rage.  you can be in you undies in your living room, no beer or pee pee lines, scratching your belly and belching as much as you want, listening and experiencing your favorite band where there are no idiots talking and taking non stop pictures the entire show.

and damn these band names are getting out of hand . . . mount saint helens vietnam band . . . come on now.

"pee pee lines" classic

darn, i thought this was going to be about the white house easter egg roll

godsshoeshine wrote:
i was in ireland last summer. guinness is plentiful, but of course in the west murphy's rules the world

I was there last week and can assure you there is plenty of guinness still being drunk!