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Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles

Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 05:34 PM UTC #
sweetcell wrote:
Doctor wrote:
sweetcell wrote:
Doctor wrote:
That kind of cruel, psycho crap is not a mistake that you express remorse for and move on with your life. 

oh shit, i didn't realize that someone here was privy to vick's rehabilitation progress.


I'm sorry that the facts of Vick's extreme cruelty might have interfered with your sports  entertainment needs.   

nothing to do with entertainment needs, everything to do with giving folks the benefit of the doubt and a chance at redemption.  maybe that's openness and generosity that is beyond you.

i'm not a fan of vick, although i am a fan of the sport.  apparently i don't share your self-confidence in knowing what's going on in someone's head - especially after they've been incarcerated and in therapy for almost 2 years.

Sugartastic wrote:
Okay, toughguycell ;), you are right, no one can know.

cute :)  no, there are people who know - lawyers, parole officers, therapists, etc.  but i'm fairly certain none of them are on this board.

Sugartastic wrote:
Is he in current anger therapy or similar? (I'm not asking snarky, I'm really asking)

i would be shocked if he didn't undergo some type of therapy, anger or otherwise.  but i don't know.


I can forgive many things, but not torturing animals for pleasure.

It's wonderful that you're so open and forgiving towards someone who engaged in such pointless cruelty, though.  So I assume you would say the same thing about someone who tortured kids?  With adequate therapy, deserving of a chance not just at redemption, but a multimillion dollar career?

elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 05:34 PM UTC #
Doctor wrote:
Right… but lots of people get away with con games, too.  Doesn't mean Madoff should go free.
I guess I don't understand how Michael Vick is "going free" in your mind. He spent two years in jail. He lost over 50 million dollars. The guy has been punished. People can disagree about whether certain punishments fit the crimes, but he's hardly gone unscathed.
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 05:41 PM UTC #
Doctor wrote:
I can forgive many things, but not torturing animals for pleasure.

It's wonderful that you're so open and forgiving towards someone who engaged in such pointless cruelty, though.   So I assume you would say the same thing about someone who tortured kids?  With adequate therapy, deserving of a chance not just at redemption, but a multimillion dollar career?
First, someone who tortured kids is not getting a 2 year sentence, it's probably more like 30.

But yes: if a brilliant hedgefund manager tortures kids and goes to jail and after their 30 year prison sentence they are still of sound enough mental faculties to manage a hedgefund again, they should completely be allowed to make millions doing so. They have paid their debt to society. This is all rotten eggs on your part over Vick making alot of money which is childish. I learned when I was like 8 that the most morally upright people are almost never the wealthiest. Vick has a certain set of rare skills that makes him valuable at something. To deny him the right to use those FOREVER after he's fulfilled his sentence is ridiculous. It's un-American even. What do you suggest, he have to wear a scarlet letter the rest of his life. It's like you're letting your emotions override everything the criminal justice system and American values stand for.

And I say this as someone who is neither a Michael Vick nor an NFL fan. I don't even watch the Super Bowl anymore, the NFL has bastardized the fine sport of football so badly.
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 05:59 PM UTC #
Doctor wrote:

Likewise, a drunk driver who kills someone, no matter how reckless they were, didn't mean to kill them.  Yes, they deserved jail time, and I actually think a month is much too short.  But without the intent, it's in a different category.

There are plenty of examples in professional sports where people have been allowed to come back who shouldn't have – Tyson the rapist, for example.   But that doesn't make it any more right in Vick's case.


this guy got 90 days, 4 years probation and 1000 hours of community service for killing a woman whilst drunk driving. . .and was suspended for 8 games.


El Tee
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3809
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 06:12 PM UTC #
sweetie, I concur w/ you - I did mean this board wouldn't know his current rehab status / state of mind. You state (above) he's been in therapy for the past 2 yrs., but then you don't know either…It may come across as I'm petty on details, perhaps we both are, but I'm not attacking you. :-*
El Tee
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3809
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 06:32 PM UTC #
Julian, wrote:
Doctor wrote:
deserving of a chance not just at redemption, but a multimillion dollar career?
Vick has a certain set of rare skills that makes him valuable at something…
…the NFL has bastardized the fine sport of football so badly.

His crime charges emotions, but I'm not clouded by it. What you say above also really frustrates me - I agree with you. (but that's a whole other can of worms for me - exploitation/$/high paid careers/crime/blah, etc. etc.)
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 06:54 PM UTC #
Whether or not he is forgiven isn't the issue at all.  And if forgiveness was the issue, it is not our forgiveness that matters here.  It's the people in the NFL writing the checks but any idiot knows that compassion and morality are not currencies they deal in.

That said, people from all walks of life and across all vocations commit crimes, go to jail, and upon their release resume said vocations.  There are obvious exceptions though.  Say a Dr. does jailtime for gross neglegence, his license to practice will be revoked.  If a crane operator get's loaded and kills a bunch of people he ain't gonna get a permit to operate a crane anytime soon.  If a defense attorney is  convicted of taking bribes from the prosection then he'll lose his license to practice.  You could go on forever with examples like this.  These are all positions that are some sort of public service and said crimes were committed while carrying out that public service, so in cases like this it makes obvious sense that those people should not be allowed to practice those professions.

Vick's crimes had nothing do with football, they had nothing to do with the integrity of the profession (and when i say integrity of football I mean his actions did not effect the outcome of games).

I don't like it anymore than the next guy.  He's a dirtbag and I would not want him on my team.  But I don't see any compelling reason that he shouldn't be allowed to play if someone is willing to pay him to do it.  He's paid his debt to society.  In no way am i commenting on whether or not that debt was just or not, but it's been paid. 
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:00 PM UTC #
The guy is a prick. There is a pattern of that type of behavior… The idea that "you move on" a la Pitino (who likes to write books about "leadership" on how to "live your life"), or Vick or whoever (Hamilton made a mistake?? Licking whipped cream of a chick's tits at a bar at 2 am when you have a wife and kids- who you've put through hell-  isn't just a mistake its a sign of a very poor individual) .That you apologize and its in the past? You hit reset? These guys are just bad apples… Now of course the Eagles can hire a bad apple…. He should not be denied the chance to work… what is he supposed to do? Bad people have to earn a living too!

But its funny that 35% of Americans applying for jobs have to have their credit checked because supposedly it shows their "character" (and I don't see THEM getting a second chance if they've made a msitake or two!) and yet a guy who electrocuted dogs gets a couple of million bucks? I guess thats the society we live in..

I think Philly deserves him.. one more asshole in a city full of them.
Mobius
Joined: March 28, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1371
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:15 PM UTC #
at this point, i think its no longer about vick . . .but about Philly fans who are now forced to support Vick, whether they think he's a piece of sh*t or not

the nfl is ubiquitous and heavily ingrained in the community . . . and if you're a fan its in your blood . . .and if you're an Eagles fan AND dog lover disgusted by Vick you just got effed in the a . . .no matter what bs the league, tony dungy, lurie, and anyone else weaves - b/c if you despise what vick did, and then cheer for him b/c he scores td's for your team you're morally compromised . . .but the other option is to water down your love for your team which is another sh*tty option . . . then again, eagles fans strike as a self-loathing group that at this point expect the worst so this turn of events probably feels normal, like another McNabb breakdown in a crucial situation.

vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:25 PM UTC #
I really only care about what effect this might have on my fantasy team.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:26 PM UTC #
chaz wrote:
And they will sell a lot of jerseys.

http://store.philadelphiaeagles.com/Michael-Vick-Green-Reebok-NFL-Replica-Philadelphia-Eagles-Jersey-_914179131_PD.html


Didn't click the link, but does it say "Mexico" on the back?
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:30 PM UTC #
vansmack wrote:
chaz wrote:
And they will sell a lot of jerseys.

http://store.philadelphiaeagles.com/Michael-Vick-Green-Reebok-NFL-Replica-Philadelphia-Eagles-Jersey-_914179131_PD.html


Didn't click the link, but does it say "Mexico" on the back?

Nope it says Vick with a big ol' #7.  Somewhere in the world underpaid child laborers are wearing their little hands to the bone to fill all the orders coming in….
walkonby
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:34 PM UTC #
i feel bad for all future dogs.  now future fuckheads will look at past tense michael vick and future tense rebounded career/we forgive you/let's keep the gravy train rolling/a ring and fantasy leagues are what's important here folks . . . and think, "wow there really is a future in exploiting animals because you know, look at michael vick."

plus the fact that throwing and catching a ball =  a "career" to be debated on whether or not one deserves to have one . . . is fucking laughable.  try having a "career" where you bust your ass just to pay bills, feed your family, etc….
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:41 PM UTC #
walkonby wrote:

plus the fact that throwing and catching a ball =  a "career" to be debated on whether or not one deserves to have one . . . is fucking laughable.  try having a "career" where you bust your ass just to pay bills, feed your family, etc….

We can't all be ditch diggers and shit sweepers.  What would we watch on tv?
wml7
Joined: February 19, 2004 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3064
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:47 PM UTC #
oprah  ;D
walkonby
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 07:52 PM UTC #
chaz wrote:
walkonby wrote:

plus the fact that throwing and catching a ball =  a "career" to be debated on whether or not one deserves to have one . . . is fucking laughable.  try having a "career" where you bust your ass just to pay bills, feed your family, etc….

What would we watch on tv?


Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 08:59 PM UTC #
A few more points.

First, cruelty to animals is a trait found in serial killers and other psychopaths.  It's not normal behavior, and it's not something that a couple of years of therapy will change.    It's not like being Catholic and going to confession, and all is forgiven.   He was a torturer before, and he still is that today, even if he controls his impulses.

And while I can't read his mind, if someone does something awful and truly feels repentant about it, they do something to atone.  I don't see him going to work to help abused animals.

I'm not saying he should rot in jail for life.  He's done his time and that should be it as far as the law goes.  But getting paid millions to throw a ball around is a privilege, and he does not deserve to return to a privileged station in life, either.   Even more than what it says about Vick, I don't like what it says about our society that so many people are willing to brush over this just to get back to the game.

It sounds from initial reactions like a lot of Eagles fans are unhappy with this decision too… I hope they make their feelings known strongly, and I hope more people make the effort to reflect on the enormity of what Vick did, rather than dismissing it as "just dogfighting."
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 09:07 PM UTC #
I agree with you in spirit, but this serial killer tangent is kinda ridiculous.

And this whole 'privilege' thing is stupid.  Sure, playing in the NFL is a privilege.  One granted by the commissioner and the owners who shell out the dollars.  Privilege granted.

Oh and btw, not that it matters to me personally, Vick is working with HSUS on programs preaching against dog fighting to inner city youth.  I don't know what amounts to atonement in peoples minds, but that's a start.

Don't get me wrong I think he's a shitbag, but all these whining arguments about him playing again just seem silly. 

Skins have the Eagles at home on a monday night this year.  One of my best friends has front row seats at the 50 yard line visitors side at Fed-Ex.  Not the best place to watch a game, but definately the best place to heckle the visiting team cuz they are like 10 feet from you.  I'll be at the Philly game and will probably get a giggle or two from all the taunts that are sure to be thrown at  vick.  I'll bet sideline security will be out the wazoo that game. 
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Agent: Michael Vick signs with Philadelphia Eagles August 14, 2009 at 10:10 PM UTC #
chaz wrote:
I agree with you in spirit, but this serial killer tangent is kinda ridiculous.
Yeah, he's really blowing away any desire any of us might have to continue having a civil discussion on the topic. We get it, he loves his puppy and killing a puppy is the same as raping children. Yeah, ok, buddy.

Just drop a hyperlink to doomlink and go already.
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