Kind of funny…I think that moshing is totally appropriate at certain shows. Watching Iggy Pop or David Yow launch themselves off the stage can only really happen if the crowd is receptive, and moshing usually will convey that the audience is into it. I'm not sure that I agree with the level of moshing I saw at some Oasis shows in the mid-90's, and I certainly didn't appreciate being caught in a horrid crowd surge at a Ned's Atomic Dustbin show (I was nearly trampled), but I certainly expected it at Helmet or even the Beastie Boys. Frankly, I'm glad it's not something you see much anymore, but that Prodigy show last year was a LOT of fun.
Moshing and local venues
That statuesque Jesus Lizard crowd at the club in '09 was disgraceful.
The Baltimore Jesus Lizard show was amphetamine n' acid fueled chaos. David even made fun of the DC show and called DC the new San Francisco haha. Now that was a moshing acceptable show if there ever was one. Moshing as sexism? Was anyone at that Drunkdriver show at Goldenwest Cafe? It was pretty much only girls moshing! I expect that upcoming Boris show to be a mosh zone. Their Black Cat shows had aggression bubbling under the surface.
My missing those TJL and Drunkdriver shows are wounds that will fester forever.
Especially Drunkdriver because I thought for sure they would be around for years. . Only got to catch them once when they played Velvet. TJL sounded like it was an exponentially better experience in Baltimore.
Especially Drunkdriver because I thought for sure they would be around for years. . Only got to catch them once when they played Velvet. TJL sounded like it was an exponentially better experience in Baltimore.
thatguy wrote:atomicfront wrote:
I think that is a terrible policy. I was at the 30th anniversary show and 3 idiots started "moshing". It was annoying. We had been there all day. If they want to "Mosh" let them do it in the back of the club.
that's the thing about a standing room venue. they have just as much right to enjoy the show the way they want to up front as you do. if the crowd decides that there's room for a mosh pit up there, it can happen. if they don't, it won't. power in numbers really does work.
like i said, it's a sliding scale. that means it goes from no moshing allowed all the way up to some pretty heavy stuff. if it's totally out of place for the show, we'll stop it.
i can't remember more than a handful of times over my tenure at the club where a mosh pit broke out at a wildly inappropriate show. i'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that in my experience it doesn't happen very often. when it has, we shut it down.This is basically a way of keeping the females from the front and is really a sort of sexism.
you lost me completely here.
If someone shoves themselves into me at a show like that expect to be shoved back in the face.
or, you could alert the nearest door staph member.
I don't like uncontralable crowds. If you are moshing go to the back as you aren't interested in seeing the set anyway.
Back when the place was WUST at a Dead Kennedy's show I saw people jumping off the upper level and getting up bleeding and then be escorrted out. Skinheads fighting with people in the pit. Jello challenging the skinheads to fights.
Anyway at virgin a couple of years ago they had some wooden structure not to far back from the stage. Some kids started jumping off it and having me catch them so they could crowd surf during Bloc Party. I had a huge line of people waiting for me to catch them and put them on there way. I think I lifted about 75 people or so people up or caught them.. Then the 930 security guards came out and put two security personal around the structure so that people couldn't do that anymore. I don't see what the big deal was in that situation. As they weren't hurting anyone.
If you mosh and are over the age of 19 or so, you are a loser.
Sez the guy with his own photo blog ;D
Doctor wrote:
If you mosh and are over the age of 19 or so, you are a loser.
thatguy wrote:
i can't remember more than a handful of times over my tenure at the club where a mosh pit broke out at a wildly inappropriate show. i'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that in my experience it doesn't happen very often. when it has, we shut it down.
Seth will tolerate moshing and assorted behavior until someone gets paralyzed and sues his ass
atomicfront wrote:
If you are moshing go to the back as you aren't interested in seeing the set anyway.
can't agree with you there. moshing is a form of interacting with the band, and the moshers want to show the band their enthusiasm/energy/etc.
and some bands want to see moshing, etc (re: yow's mocking comments at the lack of energy of the DC crowd - i doubt he would have said the same things had a mosh pit broken out during the show).
i was embarrased by the showing at the DC show. the jesus lizard even cut their set short a few songs and i don't blame them. i'm sure the baltimore crowd was great, they always are. although to be fair, there have been some shows this year where i've seen the dc crowd go off (buzzcocks, jello biafra).
Lightning Bolt's crowd also didn't disappoint.
sweetcell wrote:
can't agree with you there. moshing is a form of interacting with the band, and the moshers want to show the band their enthusiasm/energy/etc.
Or, it's a form of latent homosexual bonding, since most of the chix get chased away from the front while guys get into rubbing against each other.
sweetcell wrote:
and some bands want to see moshing
Just more proof of how lame it is… originating in the 70s as an expression of rebellion, it is now so rote and hackneyed that bands actually expect it.
thatguy wrote:atomicfront wrote:
If someone shoves themselves into me at a show like that expect to be shoved back in the face.
or, you could alert the nearest door staph member.
Easier said than done, especially if you are short and not directly against the barricade.
I agree that the rules at each show are different, but I think the staph may tolerate a little more than the audience members would. Sometimes the masses of people who don't want to be rubbed against by a sweaty "dancing" person try to regulate themselves and get yelled at by said inappropriate "dancing" drunk person about how she'll do what she wants because this is a GA show and why aren't YOU dancing, jerk??? Even if it means she elbows and bruises everyone around her.
As for crowd-surfing, it is stupid and dangerous. And I hope everyone who does it gets seriously injured and learns his/her lesson. It's something I can't stand about VFest. Too much of that nonsense.
atomicfront wrote:
Anyway at virgin a couple of years ago they had some wooden structure not to far back from the stage. Some kids started jumping off it and having me catch them so they could crowd surf during Bloc Party. I had a huge line of people waiting for me to catch them and put them on there way. I think I lifted about 75 people or so people up or caught them.. Then the 930 security guards came out and put two security personal around the structure so that people couldn't do that anymore. I don't see what the big deal was in that situation. As they weren't hurting anyone.
a conversation with our insurance company and a representative from pimlico lead to that decision. it was a combination of not wanting people to hurt themselves and not wanting people to damage the property.
sweetcell wrote:
i believe the intent of that statement is that women, being smaller/not as strong/shorter/etc are intimidated by the aggressive nature of mosh pits. fearing for their own comfort & safety, they need to keep their distance, thus they find themselves excluded from the front section of the floor where mosh pits usually take place.
i understand that. i don't understand how that constitutes sexism on our part.
there is plenty of room, and often plenty of room near the front, that will be absolutely mosh pit free at the VAST majority of shows.
that said, some of the most inappropriately aggressive people i've ever dealt with in pits have been women.
MonkeyPants wrote:
As for crowd-surfing, it is stupid and dangerous. And I hope everyone who does it gets seriously injured and learns his/her lesson.
the issue of crowd surfing is totally different from moshing. while you can reasonably avoid mosh pits, crowd surfing is difficult to keep away from. if someone that crowd surfs gets injured, that's on them for taking part in a risky activity. the problem with crowd surfing is that the great majority of injuries related to it are to people other than the surfer. in a mosh pit, it's the mosher that gets injured. with crowd surfers, it's the unsuspecting patron that gets stepped on, or the girl that gets crushed under them, or the staph member that gets kicked in the head countless times over the last 15 years.
Doctor wrote:sweetcell wrote:
can't agree with you there. moshing is a form of interacting with the band, and the moshers want to show the band their enthusiasm/energy/etc.
Or, it's a form of latent homosexual bonding, since most of the chix get chased away from the front while guys get into rubbing against each other.
what sort of mosh pits have you witnessed? the ones i've seen don't involve much rubbing. they do involve collisions, thrown elbows, violent shoving, pushing people around, etc. that constitutes something homosexual for you? hey, whatever floats your boat ;-)
Doctor wrote:sweetcell wrote:
and some bands want to see moshing
Just more proof of how lame it is… originating in the 70s as an expression of rebellion, it is now so rote and hackneyed that bands actually expect it.
right. just like bands expect applause, or dancing, or even the crowd to listen to them. how contrived! if you ever react to a show in any way that's been done before, you're sheeple.
who knew it - those people that talk all the way through a show: they're rebels. they're flying their own flag of non-conformity. all customs and expectations are slavery.
thatguy wrote:
there is plenty of room, and often plenty of room near the front, that will be absolutely mosh pit free at the VAST majority of shows.
lol
if the club is sold out, the only place there's plenty of room is outside the club or backstage
I can attest that the club staph does an amazing job monitoring these situations and controlling them for those on the edges, but letting it go on in a contained manner. That may sound uptight, but it works really well. Can't remember what show, but I was at a show where it made sense (like Social D, or Dropkick Murphys or something), but the 'pit' stayed at a very tight circle and really didn't impinge on folks who did not want to mosh. I noticed a staff person right there on the edge of the circle making sure no one was involved who didn't want to be.
thatguy wrote:
the club has no signs that say "absolutely no moshing."
if the band does not make any requests regarding moshing, our policy is on a sliding scale. if a pit breaks out at a show, we will monitor the area. there are some behaviors that are always unacceptable, but the crowd determines the acceptability of others. what is ok at a metal or hardcore show would not be ok at a pop punk show. it's a subjective decision, but the staph has many years of experience and we do our best to determine the appropriateness of any moshing activity at any show. if the participants aren't out to hurt anyone and the crowd is ok with it, moshing will be allowed at some shows.
there are plenty of spots in the club that patrons can watch the show from if they do not want to be in the vicinity of a mosh pit.
Bags wrote:
I noticed a staff person right there on the edge of the circle making sure no one was involved who didn't want to be.
Why is it always the short guys too? LOL
Ross…
Tim… RIP