Reagan Still Dead.

Bottom line:
If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way, no matter how many dogs/searches/uzi's seem to be trying to hold them back.

But if you can stop 19 out of 20 potential threats by using proper security, isn't only one terrorist attack better than 20?

Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Bottom line:
If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way, no matter how many dogs/searches/uzi's seem to be trying to hold them back.

Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Bottom line:
If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way, no matter how many dogs/searches/uzi's seem to be trying to hold them back.

Oh, ok. Then let's not attempt to deter anything, and just bow to their superior will - it's more convenient that way. It's too bad you place more faith in terrorism being inevitable than you do our security measures.

Originally posted by keithstg:
Oh, ok. Then let's not attempt to deter anything, and just bow to their superior will - it's more convenient that way. It's too bad you place more faith in terrorism being inevitable than you do our security measures.

is there anything the government does that you don't trust completely?

maybe we could try and solve the problems of why terrorists want to attack us rather than spending millions upon millions of dollars on securing us from ourselves, sure a lot of these security measures are not a huge hassle, but they aren't all necessary either, they can't secure everything, so why not create an environment where they don't need to

Originally posted by pollard:
is there anything the government does that you don't trust completely?

maybe we could try and solve the problems of why terrorists want to attack us rather than spending millions upon millions of dollars on securing us from ourselves, sure a lot of these security measures are not a huge hassle, but they aren't all necessary either, they can't secure everything, so why not create an environment where they don't need to

they hate our freedom. . .

Terrorists want to attack us because they are fucking terrorists. They are completely out of their mind goons.

There's your answer as to why terrorists want to attack us.

Originally posted by pollard:

Originally posted by keithstg:
Oh, ok. Then let's not attempt to deter anything, and just bow to their superior will - it's more convenient that way. It's too bad you place more faith in terrorism being inevitable than you do our security measures.

is there anything the government does that you don't trust completely?

maybe we could try and solve the problems of why terrorists want to attack us rather than spending millions upon millions of dollars on securing us from ourselves, sure a lot of these security measures are not a huge hassle, but they aren't all necessary either, they can't secure everything, so why not create an environment where they don't need to

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
they hate our freedom. . .

don't forget our liberty

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Terrorists want to attack us because they are fucking terrorists. They are completely out of their mind goons.

There's your answer as to why terrorists want to attack us.

I hope you are kidding

Originally posted by pollard:
maybe we could try and solve the problems of why terrorists want to attack us rather than spending millions upon millions of dollars on securing us from ourselves, sure a lot of these security measures are not a huge hassle, but they aren't all necessary either, they can't secure everything, so why not create an environment where they don't need to [/QB]

There is plenty that I don't trust, and I agree that we should attempt to solve the root of the problem (if there is just one) as best we can. However, we are not securing ourselves from ourselves, and even if we started working on the "root causes" tomorrow, we would still need to be protected while the causes were fixed. In the case of Islamic extremism, there is virtually nothing we could do to satisfy their aims.

Having spent the past two years speaking on a daily basis with those affected in 9/11 and seeing their pain and trauma, I just don't feel that my convenience should take precedence over others' safety.

Double post. All apologies.

Why did John Hinckley want to kill Reagan? Why did Son of Sam kill a bunch of people? Why did McVeigh blow up the federal building? Why do serial rapists exist? Why does al-Qaeida exist?

Because there are certain people who are such fucking nut jobs that they will do any amount of bad things to wreak their havoc on the world.

Originally posted by pollard:

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Terrorists want to attack us because they are fucking terrorists. They are completely out of their mind goons.

There's your answer as to why terrorists want to attack us.

I hope you are kidding

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Because there are certain people who are such fucking nut jobs that they will do any amount of bad things to wreak their havoc on the world.

Yeah and I hope he is not president for much longer

Originally posted by keithstg:
There is plenty that I don't trust, and I agree that we should attempt to solve the root of the problem (if there is just one) as best we can. However, we are not securing ourselves from ourselves, and even if we started working on the "root causes" tomorrow, we would still need to be protected while the causes were fixed. In the case of Islamic extremism, there is virtually nothing we could do to satisfy their aims.

Having spent the past two years speaking on a daily basis with those affected in 9/11 and seeing their pain and trauma, I just don't feel that my convenience should take precedence over others' safety.

I would have no problem with the loss of convenience if I actually felt like most of the security was effective, but I think much of it just creates the illusion of security.

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Why did John Hinckley want to kill Reagan? Why did Son of Sam kill a bunch of people? Why did McVeigh blow up the federal building? Why do serial rapists exist? Why does al-Qaeida exist?

Ever think of drawing a distinction between a terrorist and a serial killer?

ter·ror·ism     P   Pronunciation Key  (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Originally posted by pollard:
I would have no problem with the loss of convenience if I actually felt like most of the security was effective, but I think much of it just creates the illusion of security. [/QB]

What would convince you that the security was effective? The problem with complaining about the illusion of security is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Unless someone is stopped in the act, then the "illusion" is not working. What about security measures that force would-be terrorists to alter their tactics, postponing strikes, which can lead to better intelligence and potentially captures in the interm? Is that not effective? Or, what about responding to new threats with new security measures (the MARC train thing or removing shoes at airports)?

Originally posted by keithstg:

Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Bottom line:
If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way, no matter how many dogs/searches/uzi's seem to be trying to hold them back.

Oh, ok. Then let's not attempt to deter anything, and just bow to their superior will - it's more convenient that way. It's too bad you place more faith in terrorism being inevitable than you do our security measures.

Hannah Arendt said the goal of the totalitarian state is to separate the people from reality.

Do you really think that the terrorists think that they are going to persuade or coerce those they are opposed to to their way of thinking? Of course not.

Their goal is not to persuade anybody. Their goal is to cause as much fucking mayhem as they can, and gain brownie points in heaven for doing so.

I believe you meant "booty" points.

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
…and gain brownie points in heaven for doing so.

Originally posted by pollard:

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Terrorists want to attack us because they are fucking terrorists. They are completely out of their mind goons.

There's your answer as to why terrorists want to attack us.

I hope you are kidding

Israel. That's why terrorists attack us.

Originally posted by keithstg:
What would convince you that the security was effective? The problem with complaining about the illusion of security is that it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Unless someone is stopped in the act, then the "illusion" is not working. What about security measures that force would-be terrorists to alter their tactics, postponing strikes, which can lead to better intelligence and potentially captures in the interm? Is that not effective? Or, what about responding to new threats with new security measures (the MARC train thing or removing shoes at airports)?

so for the next 100 years or for however long, we are going to play a game of terrorists thinking of a new way to terrorize people, and we will respond by stopping every 4th or 5th person, or more accurately every 4th or 5th person and every foreign looking person in an airport to search them for that security problem

the problem is that this government has done little else to stop the problem other than reacting to new methods or attempting to physically eliminate the people they know want to attack American interests, and they are using the fear they create to justify doing anything they want, including the invasion of Iraq – best of all, people are buying it

meanwhile we are spending tons of money and creating an environment in the world where there is more interest in harming American interests