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Drive By Truckers: Roll Call

ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:09 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
Don't you have some packing to do, or something? :)
I have time enough to get some last minute jabs in.

Do you or Fat Boy Slim have any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:10 PM UTC #
Looks like your dictionary left a little bit out…dictionary.com has two other than the one you mentioned…

red·neck
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.

A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

redneck

n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker]
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:11 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
redneck

n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker] [/QB]
that sounds like most of my mom's family, who, coincidentially enough, also live in northern alabama.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:14 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon…if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need…it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day…

have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red!
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:22 PM UTC #
http://www.nps.gov/grca/backcountry/corridor_hikes.htm

Here are some suggested Grand Canyon itineraries. What we did is not listed as an option but what we did was:

1. Did a day hike on the South Kaibab trail. We went well further than what was recommended, and paid for it coming back up. This trail is very hot and unshaded, especially in the middle of the day. Perhaps had some of the best views of all though.

2. Came back a couple of days later and backpacked the Bright Angel Trail. Hikes all the way down to Bright Angel Campground day 1, where it was around 115 degrees. Was so hot the only thing we could really do was lay in the creek for hours at a time. Day 2 we hiked back up to Indian Gardens, but didn't start hiking until late afternoon, as advised by the ranger (the other option was to get up at 4:30 am and start hiking) Night 2 was spent at Indian Gardens, where we were both stung by a scorpion. We started hiking as soon as their was light, and hiked the rest of the way out, numb where we had been stung.


Originally posted by ggw:
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
Don't you have some packing to do, or something? :)
I have time enough to get some last minute jabs in.

Do you or Fat Boy Slim have any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:24 PM UTC #
I don't know how keen I'd be to hike the whole South Kaibab trail in a day, unless getting a very very early start. I surely wouldn't want to hike all the way up it from the Bright Angel Campground in a day.

Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon…if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need…it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day…

have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red!
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:30 PM UTC #
right you are…these wouldn't be day hikes
grotty
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:32 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
Looks like your dictionary left a little bit out…dictionary.com has two other than the one you mentioned…

red·neck
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.

A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

redneck

n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker]
Your dictionary ironically contains the EXACT same definition as mine…I'm still not convinced that being a red-neck is a good thing.

And I still have no idea what you meant by:

"herein lies the problem…what's so wrong with 'red-necks'…"
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:41 PM UTC #
yes, but you conveniently left out two definitions with other nuances, choosing only to focus on the "provincial" thinking and perceived "bigotry"
grotty
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:48 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
yes, but you conveniently left out two definitions with other nuances, choosing only to focus on the "provincial" thinking and perceived "bigotry"
Nothing convenient about it…it's the dictionary definition that most closely aligns with my usage of the word in my post. It is obviously a complex word that has different meanings to different people. I'm just glad to know that the DBT do not fit any.

I'm still interested in the "problem" you alluded to…
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:50 PM UTC #
Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living….a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today….the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
grotty
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 05:54 PM UTC #
Originally posted by mankie:
Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living….a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today….the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on…albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 06:09 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't know how keen I'd be to hike the whole South Kaibab trail in a day, unless getting a very very early start. I surely wouldn't want to hike all the way up it from the Bright Angel Campground in a day.

Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon…if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need…it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day…

have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red!
Thanks. I'll let you know what we end up doing.
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 06:13 PM UTC #
Originally posted by grotty:


Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on…albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".

I always was the wordsmith! ;)

I was just making the point/asking the question that "redneck" did not start out as a negative connotation.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 06:37 PM UTC #
Well now that we have defined what a redneck is, what is a racist?

Is a person who has friends of varying races but who would prefer that their child not date people of a different race a racist?


Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by grotty:


Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on…albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".

I always was the wordsmith! ;)

I was just making the point/asking the question that "redneck" did not start out as a negative connotation.
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 06:41 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB]

Well now that we have defined what a redneck is, what is a racist?

Is a person who has friends of varying races but who would prefer that their child not date people of a different race a racist?




My vote would be a 'NO' on that one.


"Racist" is used too freely by liberals these days..it's usually the only comeback they can think of, even though in most instances they're totally wrong.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 07:04 PM UTC #
One of my sixth graders in North Carolina once made the comment. "Sure, I like to hunt. I like to fish. I guess I'm a redneck, so what?"

I don't think "redneck" necessarily implies someone is a racist, and I don't think everybody sees the work as a term of derision.

Like "nigger" it's one of those words that takes a different meaning depending on who is using it, and in what context it is used.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 07:36 PM UTC #
Originally posted by mankie:
Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living….a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today….the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
you're not a stupid foreigner…I used to think basically the same thing about where the term came from…that it came from them having short haircuts (as opposed to being long-haired hippies) and working in the sun all day…but, here's an account that dates the term back much further:

In closing, I would like to touch on the origin of the term â??redneckâ? for your edification. In listening to one of a series of tapes from last Octoberâ??s National League of the South convention, I came across one given by Mr. Frank Walsh who, as a musician, gives the history of many of the Southâ??s traditional music. Among one of his numbers was one entitled â??Bonnie Dundee.â? It seems that as much of our original Southern music is Scottish, the story of the Scotâ??s resistance to English domination, was a natural part of our heritage. The origin, much to my own surprise, of the term â??redneckâ? stems from the time when Bonnie Dundee was commissioned by the English King (read tyrant), to suppress the Scottish â??Covenantersâ? who came to oppose what they viewed as the religious heresies of the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church was the officially recognized Church of England that didnâ??t take kindly to challenges to their authority. The Scots, thanks to the invention of the printing press, had come into widespread possession of the Bible, previously confined to church leaders.

These Scots came to recognize various heresies in â??officialâ? church teachings that led them to â??covenantâ? themselves to the true teachings in the Bible. A â??National Covenant of Scotlandâ? was eventually written and solemnly signed in Edinburgh in 1638, often in the blood of its signatories. As a symbol of their covenant with God and each other, the Scottish Covenanters began wearing a red collar around their neck. Noting the symbolism, the English began to derisively refer to these religious dissenters as â??Rednecks.â? Thus, the origin of the term was born in Christian reformation and resistance to religious and political coercion. Due to their religious and political oppression, and eventual defeat, many of Scotlandâ??s Covenanters fled their homeland and came to settle the American South.

So it is that the South became the historic home for the Scottish â??Rednecksâ?….
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 07:37 PM UTC #
Originally posted by grotty:
I'm still interested in the "problem" you alluded to…
the problem is northerners' and city folks' quickness to judge southerners as rednecks…and the blanket aversion to the stars and bars…and the lack of understanding of the confederacy or rebels
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Drive By Truckers: Roll Call June 19, 2003 at 08:03 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:


I don't think "redneck" necessarily implies someone is a racist, and I don't think everybody sees the work as a term of derision.


Come to think of it, you have a point. Last week I was in a beer & wine place near where I live and in walked this couple. He was a poster boy for the "redneck". Two day beard, messy hair sticking out of baseball hat, wranglers with large belt buckle, oily workboots, black t-shirt..you get the idea. His honey was a black girl with the corn braid thingies. I thought to myself, "huh, you don't see that every day" They were holding hands and had a little smooch while waiting in line so I knew they were a couple……As I left I saw them hop into his pickup truck….that had a big dog in the back!

I must admit, it made me feel warm and fuzzy for a moment because the world isn't such a bad place after all.
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