WHFS is now......a salsa channel?

although, hfs's program has been horrible for quite some time, this is still concerning. Where they in need of some major renovation? Absolutly, but it is still discouraging to be seeing what it was replaced with. the fact that lollapalooza was cancelled, meriweather has been struggling to say open for years, album and ticketsales are generally down and now this. It is alarming, whether you liked their recent programing or not. This is just an extenstion of the over all lackluster of the music industry, especailly in the (and I use this word very loosly) "rock" genere.

mp3 killed the audio star…..

not exactly, but you get the point.
Most album and ticket sales are down, which means profits for record companies and artists are down, which means record companies are taking fewer risks and chances and there is less motovation for artists to original, which means less creative and original acts are being signed, which means you have watered down radio stations that are not playing hardly any good new music, which means lower listener ratings, which means…..you got it salsa. This is f%*#ing bad. Music is more than just entertainment. It is the voice of generations, the freedom of speach. One of the last freedoms we have that is slowly being striped from us (thanks FCC). Do I listen to the radio that often? Not anymore. Not for quite some time. As many of you have stated I am ususally listening to my ipod. But you will never hear a new artist on your ipod! I have one of the larger pods, but guess what? Eventully I am going to get sick of playing the same dated stuff over and over again, regaurdless of how much I like it. I will want something new and exciting. Something that speaks to and for current and future generations….

Where will I hear it???????????

Originally posted by aortaatroa:
This is just an extenstion of the over all lackluster of the music industry, especailly in the (and I use this word very loosly) "rock" genere.

Most album and ticket sales are down, which means profits for record companies and artists are down, which means record companies are taking fewer risks and chances and there is less motovation for artists to original, which means less creative and original acts are being signed, which means you have watered down radio stations that are not playing hardly any good new music, which means lower listener ratings, which means…..
Where will I hear it???????????

which means now people will start having to do some *work* to find new music…maybe smaller, local "scenes" will develop…

of course, most things that become part of an "industry" or comglomerate become less valuable artistically…so the break down of the industry could actually be a good thing…just keep supporting your TRULY independent and DIY artists and labels…

Originally posted by aortaatroa:

Most album and ticket sales are down,

US CD sales rose by 2.3% in 2004 - the first rise in four years - despite the growing popularity of legal digital music downloads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4150747.stm

which means now people will start having to do some *work* to find new music…maybe smaller, local "scenes" will develop…

of course, most things that become part of an "industry" or comglomerate become less valuable artistically…so the break down of the industry could actually be a good thing…just keep supporting your TRULY independent and DIY artists and labels… [/QB]

Yes, this could be true. Let's hope so anyway! But these things take time and it still looks quite bleak for the near future.

US CD sales rose by 2.3% in 2004 - the first rise in four years - despite the growing popularity of legal digital music downloads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4150747.stm [/QB]


They may have rose slightly last year but they are still generally much lower than say 5 to 10 years ago. It is good that there was a small increase last year, but things like this are not going to help.

The fact of the matter is the numbers tell the story with regards to WHFS

According to the October 2004 Arbitron ratings, which cover the summer months, WHFS ended up 17th out of 20. It placed between Z104 & WAVA (105.1 - religious/talk format).

HFS was 17th for July and April as well. Fall 2003 it came in 20th.

Kinda hard to sell advertising and bring in revenue on a poorly performing station. Switching to the new format makes total sense because there is less competition radio stations competing for adverstizers seeking the spanish community.

Originally posted by azaghal1981:
I've been missing the flashback cafe since they nixed that. Come to think of it, that's around the time I stopped listening regularly.

For real!

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
The fact of the matter is the numbers tell the story with regards to WHFS

According to the October 2004 Arbitron ratings, which cover the summer months, WHFS ended up 17th out of 20. It placed between Z104 & WAVA (105.1 - religious/talk format).

HFS was 17th for July and April as well. Fall 2003 it came in 20th.

Kinda hard to sell advertising and bring in revenue on a poorly performing station. Switching to the new format makes total sense because there is less competition radio stations competing for adverstizers seeking the spanish community.

That is partially true, but music should not be dictated by business and advertising. It is exactly that kind of attidude that produced the crappy music they where playing and resulted in their reflective ratings. It is unfortunate when art becomes so apprieciated that it becomes a business and ends up killing itself……..

Originally posted by aortaatroa:
That is partially true, but music should not be dictated by business and advertising…

no, but radio stations, unless college or public, kind of need to be, don't they…because businesses is what they are…

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
The fact of the matter is the numbers tell the story with regards to WHFS

According to the October 2004 Arbitron ratings, which cover the summer months, WHFS ended up 17th out of 20. It placed between Z104 & WAVA (105.1 - religious/talk format).

HFS was 17th for July and April as well. Fall 2003 it came in 20th.

Kinda hard to sell advertising and bring in revenue on a poorly performing station. Switching to the new format makes total sense because there is less competition radio stations competing for adverstizers seeking the spanish community.

>>> Kos has spoken the whole truth about the entire situation…..this station has been a truly underperforming entity for YEARS!! Revenue has been in the toilet and advertising dollars are what drives the entire station. It's very hard to sell advertising for a station that consistently finishes at the bottom of the barrel in the ratings book! Terrestrial radio is fighting for every dollar it can now. Making the move to a segment of the market that is under served could mean thousands more in revenue. If the powers that be at the station were concerned with the situation as they should have been,they could have started to tweak the format in the last 3 or 4 fours years away from the nu metal and crap and truly more to the indie pop side or the "classic" alternative that other stations in other markets had already shifted to. They had nothing to lose,the ratings were crap and the time was right to correct the problem,they chose to keep beating a dead horse! Now,here's a commercial "alternative" playlist that I'd be listening to daily in my car!http://www.indie1031.fm/music.html

Originally posted by aortaatroa:
Do I listen to the radio that often? Not anymore. Not for quite some time. As many of you have stated I am ususally listening to my ipod. But you will never hear a new artist on your ipod! I have one of the larger pods, but guess what? Eventully I am going to get sick of playing the same dated stuff over and over again, regaurdless of how much I like it. I will want something new and exciting. Something that speaks to and for current and future generations….

Where will I hear it???????????

You know where. Those two little letters….

There's radio that is geared toward satisfying advertisers, who want a certain number of a certain demographic for a certain price….

And there's radio that is geared toward the LISTENERS, because the LISTENERS, not the advertisers, are footing the bill.

Hmmm…. I wonder which kind consistently delivers fresh new music, deep deep stuff from "obscure little bands" and indie labels and "DIY artists…."
:roll:

the point is that at some point Radio Stations were seen as cash cows and therefore become hot properties to buy and sell. with large companies and corporations swooping in and paying high prices to buy them. often by going well into debt to do so. the owners then need to recover thier investment and payoff loans etc. so they want to maximize profits but targeting specific audiences in order to lure ad dollars. it got even worse when the Clear Channels of the world starting buying up multiple stations and carrying alot of debt. now they also have to satisfy the shareholders by turning a profit.

so yes the current business model for FM radio is flawed and it will never change until Infinity and Clear Channel have to have a firesale, the price comes down and let radio stations fall back into the hands of owners who care more about the music, community than trying to cover their debt.

<tongue firmly planted in cheek>
don't see why we be giving creedence to XM, seeing as one of it's chief architects, Lee Abrams, was the person that help develope the system that ultimate made radio the way it is today.

on that note i will shamelessly plug radioio.com :D

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the point is that at some point Radio Stations were seen as cash cows and therefore become hot properties to buy and sell. with large companies and corporations swooping in and paying high prices to buy them. often by going well into debt to do so. the owners then need to recover thier investment and payoff loans etc. so they want to maximize profits but targeting specific audiences in order to lure ad dollars. it got even worse when the Clear Channels of the world starting buying up multiple stations and carrying alot of debt. now they also have to satisfy the shareholders by turning a profit.

so yes the current business model for FM radio is flawed and it will never change until Infinity and Clear Channel have to have a firesale, the price comes down and let radio stations fall back into the hands of owners who care more about the music, community than trying to cover their debt.

excellent point, btw, kosmo…

oy vey…it's amazing how all of these hfs lovers come out of the woodwork now. guess cinderella was spot on with "don't know what you've got until it's gone". if i really wanted to waste some time at work today, i could probably go back through old threads and find hfs-bashing statements from some who are now boo-hooing over its demise.

just to preface the following statements, i've been living in dc proper for over 3 years now and have lived in the general area (hfs listening radius) for over 15. so, i'm not a dc "native" per se and neither do i plan to stay forever.

with that said, my general opinion is that this city is really lacking in independent music outlets. can you count the number of (decent) independent record stores in dc on one hand? go ahead and use the other hand to count the number of decent live venues (as in you consistently go to shows there)…granted there's a big difference in size and population BUT you can't look at a nyc or chicago and tell me honestly that dc isn't sorely lacking. HFS DID NOT HELP THIS SITUATION PEOPLE!!!

maybe if people in dc weren't so used to being spoonfed the latest and greatest bands via a pseudo-alternative such as HFS, they would, as celeste pointed out, be forced to find music through other channels. what happened to digging into the bins and old record stores and checking out obscure bands to find something that really knocked you out? no need to do that with your friendly alternative HFS to show you what's really cool and hip!

screw HFS for making people think muse was really cool just because they were playing them and promoting their 9:30 gig. muse was f-ing cool long before that and some of don't need the stupid corporate whores to tell us so.

finally, you think interpol and such won't come to dc anymore simply because hfs is gone? i may be deluded but i think that's crazy talk. the dc/balt area is a major market whether or not there's a station here to play it. you think they're just going to hit nyc, phila and skip over us to head to atlanta? not gonna happen.

Originally posted by joz:
finally, you think interpol and such won't come to dc anymore simply because hfs is gone? i may be deluded but i think that's crazy talk. the dc/balt area is a major market whether or not there's a station here to play it. you think they're just going to hit nyc, phila and skip over us to head to atlanta? not gonna happen.

Well…from their website

Radio City Announced
A New York City show has just been announced to conclude the first leg of US tour dates on March 1 at Radio City Music Hall. Tickets will be on sale starting 1/22. The online presale will begin at noon local time on 1/20. You must be registered to participate in the presale.

Population of NYC: 8,000,000
Population of Chicago: 2,900,000
Population of DC: 560,000

If you're going to compare music scenes, pick cities that are comparable in size to DC.

Originally posted by joz:

with that said, my general opinion is that this city is really lacking in independent music outlets. can you count the number of (decent) independent record stores in dc on one hand? go ahead and use the other hand to count the number of decent live venues (as in you consistently go to shows there)…granted there's a big difference in size and population BUT you can't look at a nyc or chicago and tell me honestly that dc isn't sorely lacking. HFS DID NOT HELP THIS SITUATION PEOPLE!!!

Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the point is that at some point Radio Stations were seen as cash cows and therefore become hot properties to buy and sell. with large companies and corporations swooping in and paying high prices to buy them. often by going well into debt to do so. the owners then need to recover thier investment and payoff loans etc. so they want to maximize profits but targeting specific audiences in order to lure ad dollars. it got even worse when the Clear Channels of the world starting buying up multiple stations and carrying alot of debt. now they also have to satisfy the shareholders by turning a profit.

so yes the current business model for FM radio is flawed and it will never change until Infinity and Clear Channel have to have a firesale, the price comes down and let radio stations fall back into the hands of owners who care more about the music, community than trying to cover their debt.

&lt;tongue firmly planted in cheek&gt;
don't see why we be giving creedence to XM, seeing as one of it's chief architects, Lee Abrams, was the person that help develope the system that ultimate made radio the way it is today.

I totally agree

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Population of NYC: 8,000,000
Population of Chicago: 2,900,000
Population of DC: 560,000

If you're going to compare music scenes, pick cities that are comparable in size to DC.

Originally posted by joz:

with that said, my general opinion is that this city is really lacking in independent music outlets. can you count the number of (decent) independent record stores in dc on one hand? go ahead and use the other hand to count the number of decent live venues (as in you consistently go to shows there)…granted there's a big difference in size and population BUT you can't look at a nyc or chicago and tell me honestly that dc isn't sorely lacking. HFS DID NOT HELP THIS SITUATION PEOPLE!!!

hence my qualifier "GRANTED THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SIZE". yes the pop of the district itself is a measly 500K but we're the nation's capital for christ's sake and that should count for something…at least another mil or so. we've got political pull GDit. then throw in the metro area and baltimore.

With or without HFS, some bands do for some reason seem to skip DC and still hit Philly, NYC, Boston, etc with some sort of regularity. Maybe because the crowds here suck? I don't know.