The NBA debacle

Is anyone else disgusted by the whole Spurs/Suns debacle?

with all the suspensions? i think they should just let them play the game, though the foul on nash was pretty bad.

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Is anyone else disgusted by the whole Spurs/Suns debacle?

Do not care.

Any interest in the season ended with Golden State and Dallas, and then it really ended last night when Utah beat GS.

That was two nights ago.

Dallas sucks. Mark Cuban sucks.

Originally posted by Relaxer:
Any interest in the season ended with Golden State and Dallas, and then it really ended last night when Utah beat GS.

terrible. glad the western playoffs are on past my bedtime

subjected my eyes to his ugliness.

<img src="http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/techchron/2006/05/09/cuban.jpg" alt=" - " />

Originally posted by bnyced0:

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
[QB] That was two nights ago.

Dallas sucks. Mark Cuban sucks.

What'd Cuban do to you?

This was such a great series and it got ruined by everybody involved. Horry for the cheap shot, Stoudamire and Diaw for being idiots by getting on the floor, and Stern for the suspensions. Think about it, that's basically 3 situations that could've avoided this mess and we went 0 for 3.

steve nash is the man!

If the Suns lose tomorrow, I'm boycotting the rest of the playoffs. No one should have been suspended. Horry should have been ejected from the game…that's it. These altercations happenened all the time in 80s. The Heat/Knicks debacle in 90s ruined everything. Playoffs always create tension between teams, that's why their so great… The NBA's destroying itself.

The NBA's destroying itself.

I thought they were making it safe for thirtysomething white folks like myself to enjoy the game without all that pesky gangsta culture and family unfriendliness.

if anyone has last night's game on DVR/tivo, go to about the 12:20/12:21 mark and watch the fans, you'll see a suns fan giving the nazi salute and screaming seig heil … it's honestly one of the most bizarre things i've ever seen

i'm actually thinking about writing a law review article on traditional theories of punishment and their application in professional sports leagues, but beyond that i think that the NBA simply had to suspend amare and boris

that's just the way they enforce their rules (and especially this rule) … if they weren't suspended there would be just as much of an uproar that they're favoring the suns … if the NBA wants to completely overhaul either the rule or their enforcement policy, then fine, but the way they operate they can't just make an ad hoc change

The NBA is still in business? Who knew?

Originally posted by le sonick:
steve nash is the man!

You're such a homer! But he is damn good.

It's interesting to contrast how NASCAR and the NBA handle their rules situations. NASCAR seem to make up their rules on the fly, and mete them out in an arbitrary fashion. The NBA on the other hand, seems to apply the rule the same without taking into any account the subjectivity of the individual situation.

This all has a whiff of bigotry, if you ask me. Dr. Doom would probably be more qualified to comment though.

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
It's interesting to contrast how NASCAR and the NBA handle their rules situations. NASCAR seem to make up their rules on the fly, and mete them out in an arbitrary fashion. The NBA on the other hand, seems to apply the rule the same without taking into any account the subjectivity of the individual situation.

I believe that has been labeled the "Smackdown Effect."

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
if anyone has last night's game on DVR/tivo, go to about the 12:20/12:21 mark and watch the fans, you'll see a suns fan giving the nazi salute and screaming seig heil … it's honestly one of the most bizarre things i've ever seen

i'm actually thinking about writing a law review article on traditional theories of punishment and their application in professional sports leagues, but beyond that i think that the NBA simply had to suspend amare and boris

that's just the way they enforce their rules (and especially this rule) … if they weren't suspended there would be just as much of an uproar that they're favoring the suns … if the NBA wants to completely overhaul either the rule or their enforcement policy, then fine, but the way they operate they can't just make an ad hoc change

99% of the time I would agree with you, and even if this was the regular season I would agree with you. But in this case I think the commissioner could have and should have used his discretion.

These aren't constitutional laws, but rather rules that a committee of owners pass during the off season. I believe the intent of this particular rule is to avoid altercations from escalating, keeping players in the bench area when something flares up is a laudable goal. But I think it has to take intent into consideration and I don't think anyone thought that those players straying a few too many feet into the prohibited area were going to actually join the fray.

However, the rule IS clear and they (assistant coaches, other players, etc) understood they were "close" to breaking it, but when the outcome of strict rule enforcement is so disportionate to the supposed infraction and so prejudices one team who weren't the instigators of the initial action there needs to be some discretion, and the commissioner has an obligation to do what's best for the league, and he failed miserably.

I also disagree that there would have been an outcry if he wouldn't have followed this rule to the letter of the law, I think team members, fans, etc. of both teams would have thought a just outcome would have been to not have suspended the suns players, and fined Horry. I also think if he wanted to make "an adhoc change" by consulting with the rules and committee, suggesting an exception, and taking the position that in the name of fairness and the best interest of the game that they don't follow the letter of the rule that it could have been done. He doesn't have to wait for congress to be in session, for a conference committee to reconcile the bill, and the president to sign it, he can be judge and jury and conjole the just result, it's a failure of leadership and a shame.

I'm just focusing on the fact that these aren't laws but rules that I believe have enough flexibility if the commissioner wanted to show leadership to make an exception. He can easily be defended on "legal" grounds, but his conscience can't possibly be at ease nor should it be.

you're completely missing the whole point of the regulation … fighting used to be a huge issue in the NBA, and this rule was meant to be a zero-tolerance approach towards ending fighting in the league, and it did a great job … the NBA determined that they wanted to stamp out fighting, and to do that they decided to impose this ZERO-TOLERANCE rule … the only way this rule works is if it's enforced the same to everyone

look at it this way, you're saying that "the outcome of strict rule enforcement is so disportionate to the supposed infraction and so prejudices one team who weren't the instigators of the initial action there needs to be some discretion" … the NBA has determined that because they want to end fighting, that leaving the bench is JUST AS BIG OF AN ISSUE as starting the fight and will be addressed on a zero-tolerance basis … therefore, in their eyes, the "outcome of strict rule enforcement" is NOT disproportionate to the supposed infraction, because they take leaving the bench SERIOUSLY

i'm sick of people saying that this is the "legal" conclusion while the "correct and sensible" conclusion is that they shouldn't have been suspended, and that the "lawyers" are fucking this all up … there is plenty of room for equity, negotiation, etc in the law, it's just that the NBA has always enforced this rule with a zero tolerance approach and they shouldn't do any different at this point

if they want to change their approach and decide that leaving the bench isn't as big of a deal to them now, then go ahead and do so, but the way the rule is written and currently enforced, stern had no other option

all of you people whining about this really just don't understand how seriously the NBA takes leaving the bench area during an altercation

by the way, it's obvious that amare was leaving the bench to join in the fray, why the hell else would he be running up the sideline?

The rules of basketball are clear, but they are interpretted on almost every single play of a game. Famously, travelling and palming are common, though rarely called. There is contact on many plays near the basket and its a judgment call whether a foul should be called or whether to "let them play."

The Stoudemire/Diaw situation needed to be judged the same way. Horry's foul was dirty and if the net result of him checking Nash into the scorer's table is a positive for the Spurs - then they got it absolutely wrong.

I didn't mind the fact that I was staying up until 1 am watching hoops . . . but this really pissed me off. It cut at the heart of competition - if you neuter the players and force them not to have passion (instead of caring about a wronged teammate you must stay where you are like a good boy) the result is just more soulless going the motions hoops (like most of the regular season).

Of course, the net result of a star missing a key game happens all the time in World Cup when guys get a 2nd yellow card and have to miss the next game - often on some ticky tack bs call - so its not unique.