bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 12:59 AM UTC
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Ok folks Iâ??m going to try and keep this short and sweet, itâ??s late and I have an early flight. Iâ??m not a professional blogger so Iâ??ll leave the set list, photos, etc to others there were enough people there that those will be out on the street likely by morning if not sooner.
Anyway the vibe, the venue was nice (maybe a little too nice) the atmosphere was electric but a little stuffy. It was a theater with seats, orchestra, mezzanine, and balcony. I had orchestra about 6 rows back on the left side (stage right) in front of Ginger. Ok, first off I loved Darcy (pre-crack), and I think Melissa ADM is a talented Canadian goddess, but Ginger is SMOKIN and a phuckin good bassist. Ok so bass wise, weâ??re all good. Forgive me but I canâ??t remember the new guitarist name, but Iâ??m sure thatâ??ll be out there as well (I knew it but Iâ??m approaching vertigo on the no-sleep meter) but heâ??s competent and all the old songs sounded just as good.
The overall sound was excellent, and the look was pretty mesmerizing, they came out in all white with the new logo as a back drop, again Iâ??m sure there will be photos oâ??plenty of everything.
The set was basically broken into 3 parts, started off fairly heavy, a middle acoustic section, and ended heavy with killer encores. The new stuff was good, I had only heard the Tarantala track in advance so I was trying let the new stuff sink in but it was pretty hard to tell the crowd loved everything so I donâ??t think thatâ??s a fair test, I loved everything so I donâ??t have much objectivity either.
I guess what you really wondering is whether theyâ??re the real deal or a facsimile of their former selves. They were as good as any other time Iâ??ve seen them, including with the full original line up at a fetish club in LA in 91 a show that made me a SP slave for life, the old tunes didnâ??t seem to suffer nor did the new stuff seem forced. The length of the show sneaks up on you because youâ??re kinda of wondering whatâ??s coming next so a couple of hours passed it felt like nothing. I went to the 2nd to last show in Chicago before they broke up and the vibe was sort of like that, you knew what you were getting but you couldnâ??t quite believe that it was happening. This felt like a real show not a reunion. A comparison to the RATM set at Coachella, where you knew every song word for word and also that the concert would only be about 1.5 hours, this was more intense because you just didnâ??t know what to expect. Bottom Line?
It was fucking awesome.
Goodnight.
Darth Ed
Joined: May 19, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1159
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 07:05 AM UTC
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Thanks for the report, bnyced0!
bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 01:49 PM UTC
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Now that Iâ??ve had a few hours to let this marinate in my mind, a few additional thoughts. Iâ??ll reiterate that the show didnâ??t have a â??reunionâ? feel to it, it just seemed like a gig. I guess the biggest difference was that there wasnâ??t a feeling of nostalgia, that was probably due to the immediacy of the new songs, and soundness of the performance of the old songs with the same subtle changes in a live setting that has always been apart of SP gigs.
Another thing that has occurred to me is that this also doesnâ??t seem like a crass cash grab, the fact that they are planning smaller shows (3K or less in Europe) and the residencies (I paid less for a ticket to Asheville than the surcharges on most festival tickets) in the US along with the festival appearances shows at least to me that they are trying hone their chops and kind of get a real band vibe going before playing arenas, etc. Just by a way of contrast, the Pixies endless reunion while great never rose above their past, which if you were there in the past wasnâ??t all that illustrious. They kind of took advantage of the fondness of the old fans, and the feeling of missing something of the younger newer fans. I was apart of the problem in the sense that I went to at least a dozen of those shows and was at another half dozen of the festival appearances, and the set list varied little over the 2 years of touring they did. This isnâ??t a criticism as much as a comparison, the Pixies made a lot of people happy and they sounded great. I have the feeling that SP on the other hand isnâ??t (specifically Billy doesnâ??t want to) merely rest of past accomplishments, make a bunch of cash, and bug off again.
Now the shrewdness of the whole come back effort has to be applauded albeit a very cynical enterprise. Announcing 2 years in advance â??theyâ? are coming back, keeping everything shrouded in secrecy as to who was in the band and not releasing any new material until the last minute, has whipped everyone into a frenzy, a very 2007 viral campaign. I think Billy has spent a long time reviewing the BUSINESS of rock and roll and I think heâ??s calculated this all very carefully, and I also think heâ??s looking at this from a fanâ??s perspective and how he would want one of his favorite bands to comeback.
I could be naïve, or merely hopeful. But based on the energy of the playing last night, this is not going to be a joke. They were one of the biggest bands in the world, but the world has changed since 2000. But I think it could happen again, you canâ??t fake this shit either youâ??re good or your not. They are fucking good.
Iâ??m not one of the those in denial about Silversun Pickups sounding like old SP and that is certainly the reason why I like them so much because Iâ??ve been starved for the genuine article. The real thing is back, and you can try and be a purist and say without Darcy and James itâ??s NOT the real thing. I can only say this, listen to the music, whoever the fuck is playing it you get the same feeling, thatâ??s the only litmus test I can follow, and I got the same feeling.
Alright Iâ??m done.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 01:52 PM UTC
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So what were you doing in Paris?
nkotb
Joined: August 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 6500
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 01:54 PM UTC
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Except, uh, the Pixies shows were REUNIONS. This is Corgan solo playing Pumpkins songs. Who is this different than the new GNR?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Just by a way of contrast, the Pixies endless reunion while great never rose above their past, which if you were there in the past wasnâ??t all that illustrious. They kind of took advantage of the fondness of the old fans, and the feeling of missing something of the younger newer fans.
bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 01:57 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
So what were you doing in Paris?
I was in England for ATP over the weekend, I just came to Paris for the Pumpkins show once it was announced. I'm heading back home for a couple of days in a few hours.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 01:59 PM UTC
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Was France in the awful mess that people on this board seem to portray it as being in?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
So what were you doing in Paris?
I was in England for ATP over the weekend, I just came to Paris for the Pumpkins show once it was announced. I'm heading back home for a couple of days in a few hours.
bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:02 PM UTC
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Originally posted by nkotb:
Except, uh, the Pixies shows were REUNIONS. This is Corgan solo playing Pumpkins songs. Who is this different than the new GNR?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Just by a way of contrast, the Pixies endless reunion while great never rose above their past, which if you were there in the past wasnâ??t all that illustrious. They kind of took advantage of the fondness of the old fans, and the feeling of missing something of the younger newer fans.
Like I said, you can be the judge of the music. If you're going to be hung up on the fact that only two "original" members are in the new line-up that's on you. Over the history of the pumpkins I'd dare say there were more shows played without "the original line-up" than were but since I don't have the precise figures or even really care I can't swear to it, but I think it must be close. And what I heard was NOT Billy solo, but I'm also not going to try and be an apologist and defend them if you think they suck so be it, but if you want others to be unenthusiastic because it's not the line-up from 1991 you're going to be shit out of luck. I'm not the same from 1991 and neither are you, shit happens and we move on. Like I said this wasn't a nostaglia trip, it was just a great band sounding great.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:05 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Was France a fantastical utopia of svelte, beautiful, tastefully attired people; none of whom live below the poverty line?
bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:05 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Was France in the awful mess that people on this board seem to portray it as being in?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
So what were you doing in Paris?
I was in England for ATP over the weekend, I just came to Paris for the Pumpkins show once it was announced. I'm heading back home for a couple of days in a few hours.
What poverty, racial violence, and laziness? It didn't seem like it to me, but I'm there fairly often and the other bullshit stereotypes I've read from people on this board arent' true either. I do know the dumbassess running our economic policy in the states have not only squeezed out the middle class and raised the numbers falling into poverty, but our currency isn't worth shit and was raped on the exchange both in UK and in France. But that's another argument.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:08 PM UTC
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Will this tour allow Billy to buy another 8 million dollar lakefront property?
nkotb
Joined: August 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 6500
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:09 PM UTC
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I happen to like the pre-Mellon Collie albums quite a bit, and I've seen the band a handful of times previous, so it's not like I think they suck*. I just think it's a little weird to think this isn't some type of cash grab. Billy's tried two things since the split: Zwan, which tanked, and a solo record, which also tanked. If he had toured solo, with a backing band, and played the exact same set as you saw, would you have been as excited? Would it have made as much news and money? No…people are buying into the Smashing Pumpkins brand.
But I also honestly don't get the difference between this tour (two original members playing some new material and a lot of old tracks) and GNR (one original member, one auxiliary member, and a lot of bigger names added playing some new material and a lot of old tracks). How is one a nostalgia trip and the other isn't? How is one authentic and the other not?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Originally posted by nkotb:
Except, uh, the Pixies shows were REUNIONS. This is Corgan solo playing Pumpkins songs. Who is this different than the new GNR?
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Just by a way of contrast, the Pixies endless reunion while great never rose above their past, which if you were there in the past wasnâ??t all that illustrious. They kind of took advantage of the fondness of the old fans, and the feeling of missing something of the younger newer fans.
Like I said, you can be the judge of the music. If you're going to be hung up on the fact that only two "original" members are in the new line-up that's on you. Over the history of the pumpkins I'd dare say there were more shows played without "the original line-up" than weren't since I don't have the precise figures or even care I can't swear to it, but I think it must be close. And what I heard was NOT Billy solo, but I'm also not going to try and be an apologist and defend them if you think they suck so be it, but if you want others to be unenthusiastic because it's not the line-up from 1991 you going to be shit out of luck. I'm not the same from 1991 and neither are you, shit happens and we move on. Like I said this wasn't a nostaglia trip, it was just a great band sounding great.
bnyced0
Joined: March 02, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 894
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:26 PM UTC
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OK, I have a plane to catch so this will be the last thing I have to say about this. My point wasn't that you think past SP sucks in general, but rather that you seem hellbent to think THIS SP sucks/will suck/etc. I can say one last time, listen to them, if you don't like it fine. But I think if you like what the SP represented in ANY time period you probably won't be as disappointed as you expect. Now you may be stubborn enough to deny any legitimacy in this new enterprise and that's on you. As far as the differences between this and GnR I won't insult your intelligence, if you want to go with that analogy fine I'm not in the mood for a pissing contest over something that simply doesn't have any validity from my perspective. All I can say is that I've seen them, heard some of the new tunes, and I think they're good, once you do you can make a knowlegable opinion based on what you've witnessed rather than speculation. If you choose to just sit on sidelines and heckle have at it, I can only think of one person that loses in that scenario. I'm outa here, Pumpkins are back deal with it.
Originally posted by nkotb:
[QB] I happen to like the pre-Mellon Collie albums quite a bit, and I've seen the band a handful of times previous, so it's not like I think they suck*. I just think it's a little weird to think this isn't some type of cash grab. Billy's tried two things since the split: Zwan, which tanked, and a solo record, which also tanked. If he had toured solo, with a backing band, and played the exact same set as you saw, would you have been as excited? Would it have made as much news and money? No…people are buying into the Smashing Pumpkins brand.
But I also honestly don't get the difference between this tour (two original members playing some new material and a lot of old tracks) and GNR (one original member, one auxiliary member, and a lot of bigger names added playing some new material and a lot of old tracks). How is one a nostalgia trip and the other isn't? How is one authentic and the other not?
nkotb
Joined: August 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 6500
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:42 PM UTC
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Fair enough…but I'm genuinely curious. I don't think this will suck, although I'm not remotely excited for it. I'd see one of the shows if it happened to be at the Club, and of course I'd make up my own mind.
I just think it's a little weird to think this is a "pure" reunion that's for the music and not the money. If it was about the music, and strictly the music, why does he need the Smashing Pumpkins branding to get people excited? He was the main contributor; shouldn't his solo record be as exciting? And if he's the only songwriter, why does the name matter?
I just don't really get the level of excitement. Can anyone explain it to me? I can get the "never seen them before" vibe; I'd probably jump on that bandwagon if I hadn't gotten a chance to see them in their prime. But to say "the Pumpkins are back" seems SUPER over the top to me.
If Paul & Ringo put a band together, played all Beatles songs and toured the world, would the Beatles be back? That's fairly similar: one main songwriter and a drummer.
Again, I'm not trying to be a killjoy…I'd really like to know why it's so exciting.
tigersscareme
Joined: April 10, 2006 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 414
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:43 PM UTC
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lucky.
i love paris.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:46 PM UTC
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Maybe he can get the 8 million dollar condo this time around!
From the Chicago Tribune:
Billy Corgan buys a piece of the Gold Coast
Ten months after selling his Victorian painted lady mansion in Lake View for $1 million, former Smashing Pumpkins lead singer and chief songwriter Billy Corgan has paid $2.95 million for a recently renovated, historic six-room condominium on the Gold Coast.
After disbanding the Smashing Pumpkins, Corgan formed a new group, Zwan, which is playing three sold-out shows at the Double Door this weekend.
Through his tour manager, Corgan declined to comment on the purchase of the two-bedroom condo. His tour manager confirmed that the singer-songwriter recently has been staying at the condo while rehearsing for Zwan's current tour, but said the Chicago-area native ultimately intends to lease the condo in a 110-year-old building to someone else. The unit has an oak-paneled living room, reception room, balcony framed by granite columns, four fireplaces, walnut parquet floors and a large terrace.
Corgan has shown an affinity for vintage properties. After moving out of the more than 100-year-old Lake View home at 3448 N. Greenview Ave., which he owned from 1993 to 2001, Corgan temporarily stayed in a penthouse in the Haberdasher Square loft development, 728 W. Jackson Blvd., a former manufacturing building that dates to 1926. And in 2000, the Landmarks Preservation Council of Illinois awarded Corgan its President's Award for his commitment to historic preservation.
Since Corgan sold his Lake View home, one Smashing Pumpkins Web site reported that he has been living in Italy, but in interviews he has declined any comment on his permanent residence.
Darth Ed
Joined: May 19, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1159
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 02:59 PM UTC
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Show of hands, everyone: Who cares about the real estate holdings of musicians besides Rhett? Anyone?
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 03:06 PM UTC
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Obviously, the Chicago Tribune thinks some people do.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not a musician.
Originally posted by Darth Ed:
Show of hands, everyone: Who cares about the real estate holdings of musicians besides Rhett? Anyone?
Darth Ed
Joined: May 19, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1159
Re: PUMPKINS PARIS, FIRST IMPRESSIONS
May 23, 2007 at 03:08 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Oh, and by the way, I'm not a musician.
I didn't say you were.