Originally posted by Bollocks:they use your posts for that, actually.
to torture and abuse
Pumpkins vs. Nirvana
If you think about it all those hair metal bands that claim that Nirvana ended their careers, should be thankful. It frozen them in time like all dinosaurs are. It's not like they went away, in fact they are still probably as popular today as they were then. Think of the new dreck that those bands could be releasing today. Now they can go out and play shows for olde time sake with all the old hits and not produce anything new.
Same thing happed with all the Prog Rock bands the Sex Pistols "took" down, like Yes, Moody Blues and Jethro Tull. They still seem to bring in the crowds and money to play thier old stuff.
Will in 20 years Franz Ferndinad get the same blame as Nirvana and the Sex Pistols?
Same thing happed with all the Prog Rock bands the Sex Pistols "took" down, like Yes, Moody Blues and Jethro Tull. They still seem to bring in the crowds and money to play thier old stuff.
Will in 20 years Franz Ferndinad get the same blame as Nirvana and the Sex Pistols?
Originally posted by sonickteam2:I couldn't disagree more. Music had degenerated to such a point (all the third generation hair metal bands) that yes - the "world was so ready for something new."
see, the major disagreement that i have with Nirvana, and i guess this could go with anyone.
is this..
Did Kurt Cobain really bring it all together to influence a generation? or did he influence the media and THEY influenced a generation?
I am not positive that Nirvana didnt just happen to be the band that the media (radio,MTV etc) decided to use to change a VERY stagnant time in pop music.
Was the world so ready for something new?
Living in Canada when all of this happened, i think had a little different perspective on the whole thing. Kids werent listening to Nirvana so much, but everything that spawned from it.
In 1990 there was ONE place for underagers to see shows, by 1993 there was like 6.
There's no way Nirvana was a media conspiracy. None of the media corps are that smart or saavy. They are only very capable of exploiting a sound/movement etc. after being shocked by its initial success - "everything that spawned from it." That's the real problem behind genre change moments like this. You know that for the next decade you're going to be bombarded with the next big knockoff & most times they are hardly worthy. Much to the detriment of all the other great music that still is actually being created. It happened with metal - "grunge" - rap-metal - and even rap & hip hop. That's what really is killing music. The general public's inablity to choose for themselves & to be lead by music companies only looking to maximize $$.
Good thing we all know better! :D
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:More likely The Strokes, 'cuz that's how whacked things are…
Will in 20 years Franz Ferndinad get the same blame as Nirvana and the Sex Pistols?
I completely agree with Grotty on the unlikelihood that Nirvana was a media conspiracy. What did the media have in the game at that point? Not that they didn't play a role in the precipitous rise and now-legendary reverance.
Originally posted by grotty:the first time i heard "smells like teen spirit" on the radio in 9/91 the DJ said "this is so exciting, this is THE next big thing in music right here, Nirvana" I remember that to this day, and I've been told its the indentical thing said when first played on 99.1 WHFS.
There's no way Nirvana was a media conspiracy.
thats all I'm saying.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:That may be true…but-
Originally posted by grotty:the first time i heard "smells like teen spirit" on the radio in 9/91 the DJ said "this is so exciting, this is THE next big thing in music right here, Nirvana" I remember that to this day, and I've been told its the indentical thing said when first played on 99.1 WHFS.
There's no way Nirvana was a media conspiracy.
thats all I'm saying.
HFS was very different then. Not perfect - but not yet the media conglomerate bitch they are today.
I'd also bet that it was later in the game by then. No doubt radio - labels - etc. are able to jump fairly quickly in their best interests onto an exploding sound. ("Not that they didn't play a role in the precipitous rise and now-legendary reverance." - Bags)
In all fairness - maybe that was also said with some sincerity. I probably said the same thing to different people. It really sounded that different. And people were liking it. Reacting to it. It had to signal something was happening. Even if it was only the death of Warrant.
Originally posted by grotty:thats the real reason i dont like Nirvana..
the death of Warrant.
:D
and it was all those 4th generation hair metal bands that couldn't get a record deal to save thier life, who changed their clothes and "attitude" to become grunge bands.
The Strokes could be the group that causes the current genre "changes". However, they certainly weren't not an organic success as lots of "promotional fees" were spent to get them on the airways…
The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.
The Strokes could be the group that causes the current genre "changes". However, they certainly weren't not an organic success as lots of "promotional fees" were spent to get them on the airways…
The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:You know me, always eager to help Rummie and the boys.
Originally posted by Bollocks:they use your posts for that, actually.
to torture and abuse
From what I know about Cobain, I can tell you he probably didn't want to be labeled the way he has been labeled by the media for the past 10 years. I think he felt so much pressure from all angles. I'm not sure Courtney Spungen helped matters either.
As with all things new and exciting, they tend to fade once the clones creep in and try to cash in. But I think that Cobain really loved and cherished music in a way that only a real artist can. He was the real deal, trying to make music for the right reasons. But I think he knew and was able to foresee what his music had done to the industry, and yes, I really do think Nirvana's impact was that big. If you had to narrow it down to one factor or band, it was them. And he probably hated himself for it. I know I shouldn't psychoanalyze him, but in a way I think it just makes sense that Cobain realized that he had helped create (or at least make popular) "alternative rock" as a major genre. Lollapalooza demonstrated that there was indeed an audience there.
But to paraphrase Johnny Rotten, if you want to stop being a rock star then just STOP. It's that simple. And I believe that it's true. In my opinion, Nirvana happened because they were at the right place at the right time. So many brilliant pieces of music never get heard on a large scale because people aren't ready to listen. Cobain's legacy will always live on because of how he sealed his fate. Like all great art and artists, death at one's peak guarantees immortality. And as a result, those artists become legends. So there ya go. His music still holds its own, of course.
And for the record, yes, the Pumpkins in concert made some people lose their shit as well. "I Am One" live and "Silverfuck" always went over big. I do miss those shows back in 1993 and 1994. They were really soemthing.
As with all things new and exciting, they tend to fade once the clones creep in and try to cash in. But I think that Cobain really loved and cherished music in a way that only a real artist can. He was the real deal, trying to make music for the right reasons. But I think he knew and was able to foresee what his music had done to the industry, and yes, I really do think Nirvana's impact was that big. If you had to narrow it down to one factor or band, it was them. And he probably hated himself for it. I know I shouldn't psychoanalyze him, but in a way I think it just makes sense that Cobain realized that he had helped create (or at least make popular) "alternative rock" as a major genre. Lollapalooza demonstrated that there was indeed an audience there.
But to paraphrase Johnny Rotten, if you want to stop being a rock star then just STOP. It's that simple. And I believe that it's true. In my opinion, Nirvana happened because they were at the right place at the right time. So many brilliant pieces of music never get heard on a large scale because people aren't ready to listen. Cobain's legacy will always live on because of how he sealed his fate. Like all great art and artists, death at one's peak guarantees immortality. And as a result, those artists become legends. So there ya go. His music still holds its own, of course.
And for the record, yes, the Pumpkins in concert made some people lose their shit as well. "I Am One" live and "Silverfuck" always went over big. I do miss those shows back in 1993 and 1994. They were really soemthing.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:What ladder did Nirvana climb up? EMPTY V put them right up there on the pedestal. Without that video for teenage spirit, I doubt they would have ever made a name for themselves outside of Seattle or the college campuses around the country.
The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.
Originally posted by Bollocks:You are such the contrarian. Rhett with a rosbif accent. I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so. :D
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:What ladder did Nirvana climb up? EMPTY V put them right up there on the pedestal. Without that video for teenage spirit, I doubt they would have ever made a name for themselves outside of Seattle or the college campuses around the country.
The White Stripes, get my vote, as they are more organic, having worked they way up the ladder much like Nirvana.
Again - even MTV was different then. Transitioning yes - but still better & still occasionally decent. I'd even argue that that period was MTVs finest. They were actually playing some decent *music* (see original 120 minutes). For everyone who yearns for the old old school MTV - are you kidding me? Look back at what they were playing near inception. Really any video they could get their hands on. It may be the biggest batch of crap EVER. Talk about artificially inflating a bands exposure - popularity - etc. Mike & the freakin' Mechanics?!?!?!?!?!!?
Silly me….when Bleach and the first Mudhoney lp were out I though Mudhoney would be the first band to make it big from Seattle. I remember arguing with a guy in my dorm about which band would get huge. He swore it would be nirvana. This was in 89 or 90….when exactly did Nevermind come out anyway? About a year later me and some friends went to a shitty local club in Richmond called Twisters. It was Monday and we went every Monday cuz it was free to get in that night and see the bands. Smashing Pumkins were playing and we'd never even heard of them. To this day definately the most surprising show I'd ever seen and maybe the best small club show I've ever seen. Their sound was just so huge…we all went out and bought Gish in the next few days.
I haven't really added anything here…just thinking back.
I haven't really added anything here…just thinking back.
Originally posted by grotty:the dental insurance.
I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.
and to be closer to Canada!
"we went every Monday cuz it was free to get in that night and see the bands. Smashing Pumkins were playing and we'd never even heard of them. To this day definately the most surprising show I'd ever seen and maybe the best small club show I've ever seen. Their sound was just so huge…we all went out and bought Gish in the next few days."
Chaz - you just described the exact reason why I - and most others on this board I suspect - go to shows. It's for magic moments like this.
You've given me goose bumps :o
Chaz - you just described the exact reason why I - and most others on this board I suspect - go to shows. It's for magic moments like this.
You've given me goose bumps :o
Originally posted by grotty:You are such the contrarian. Rhett with a rosbif accent. I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so. :D
[/qb]
Again - even MTV was different then. Transitioning yes - but still better & still occasionally decent. I'd even argue that that period was MTVs finest. They were actually playing some decent *music* (see original 120 minutes). For everyone who yearns for the old old school MTV - are you kidding me? Look back at what they were playing near inception. Really any video they could get their hands on. It may be the biggest batch of crap EVER. Talk about artificially inflating a bands exposure - popularity - etc. Mike & the freakin' Mechanics?!?!?!?!?!!? [/QB]
At what time of the night was 120 minutes on???? Hardly primetime now was it? I know, I used to stay up to watch it back then.
I just do one of these :p
Originally posted by sonickteam2:Don't forget to get cheap Canadian prescription drugs!
Originally posted by grotty:the dental insurance.
I don't know how you can stand living here since you hate American sports, politics and music so.
and to be closer to Canada!
Originally posted by Bollocks:How about some proof - facts - etc. rather than just conjecture and opinion. To compare Nirvana in any way to a manufactured boy band a la N Sync is just way beyond absurdity.
I just do one of these :roll: whenever I hear this shit about Cobain and his music and he was all about the music man, and didn't care about fame or fortune…BULLSHIT!!The fact there are Nirvana VIDEOS contradicts that. God bless him for making a mint out of his mediocre drivvel, but don't try to make him out as some musical folk hero when all he is is nothing more than an unwashed member of N'Sync.
And for the record - just how and why is making a video ANY different from making a record in the first place? Using that analogy - all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
And in Cobain's case, maybe best intentions turned out to not deliver what he really wanted and needed. I think that's why there's a saying - Be careful what you wish for.
And finally…where you going?
Originally posted by grotty:I'm fine with that.
all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:And record the gigs so you can buy what you just heard instead of the over-produced studio stuff.
Originally posted by grotty:I'm fine with that.
all ANY band should ever do is play gigs.