Originally posted by Bags:I'm fully aware of that. But I'm also fully aware of the kinds of games that Enron like corporations and the such play and have been proven in the past to play.
Originally posted by Jaguar:Sometimes 103-115 degree whether all along the coast – including possible highs of 105 in Portland, OR – causes blackouts, too. ;)
I've been wondering if it's yet another Enron kind of scam where they are intentionally exploiting the situation and creating rolling blackouts even though they don't have any real need
Editors roll call :)
Originally posted by Bags:causes me to black out
including possible highs of 105 in Portland, OR – causes blackouts, too. ;)
Originally posted by Jaguar:the unfortunate problem is that, for the most part, what enron did was that, under the rules in place at the time, there was nothing wrong with what they were doing. enron owned no generation or transmission facilities, so there were no market power issues, all they did was market power and use the market rules to make money. of course, that's the simplistic view of what happened.
Originally posted by Bags:I'm fully aware of that. But I'm also fully aware of the kinds of games that Enron like corporations and the such play and have been proven in the past to play.
Originally posted by Jaguar:Sometimes 103-115 degree whether all along the coast – including possible highs of 105 in Portland, OR – causes blackouts, too. ;)
I've been wondering if it's yet another Enron kind of scam where they are intentionally exploiting the situation and creating rolling blackouts even though they don't have any real need
but, that's neither here nor there. with extreme high temps running for almost a week straight, things are bound to break, not mention, electricity normally is able to be moved from market to market, but with all markets suffering the same effects, it puts a strain on the local facilities to meet their load.
bags- i now know waaaaay more about electricity policy, and california policy than before (see vansmack's message about cpuc).
This should be a great bill…Have seen all 3 of these bands before- Fico is right about Lake Trout, no more the Jam band.
The Cedars tune Century is well done, really driving, me likes it!
The Cedars tune Century is well done, really driving, me likes it!
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:Apparently, according to this article, there have been. But maybe you are trying to pull a fast one by using some kind of ever so crafty political jargon with your use of the phrase 'ordered by the california iso'. Maybe they aren't state ordered; I don't know. But to the average reader, it comes off like there were no blackouts in Calif. period.
as of right now, there have been no blackouts ordered by the california iso. . .in fact, i don't think there have been any blackouts anyway in the state. . new york and st. louis, that's a different matter.
There's also a pretty cool picture there of that fog you were talking about.
With that said, the blackouts may be very warrented. I don't know. Understandable with the kind of weather in the area now and the demands. I just know that all of the different kinds of energy and oil companies are notorious for all of their dirty deeds at everyone elses' expense. After awhile, it's like that old cliché, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'.
Bet there aren't any blackouts up there at the Grove!
Originally posted by Jaguar:That article came out after Venerable posted that there were no rolling blackouts. Up unitl that point, they hadn't been ordered.
Apparently, according to this article, there have been. But maybe you are trying to pull a fast one by using some kind of ever so crafty political jargon with your use of the phrase 'ordered by the california iso'.
But that being said, we kicked a Governor out for exactly this problem, and I'm not hearing anybody wanting Arnie's head on a platter out here. Maybe the PUC is getting more love from the Guvernator than they did from Davis. Liar bastards, the lot of 'em.
And for the record, I'm working with the lights out, but I'll be damned if I'm turning off my computer or my speakers!
True but that's when it was finally written and posted.
Check out this phrase from the 1st paragraph: "another round of blackouts". That clearly states that something had happened prior.
Christ, I'm sounding like a lawyer! I've been hanging around you too long! LOL :p
BTW, I'm not trying to point fingers at Bede or anything. Just nitpicking, moreso at the corrupt elite (not meaning all elite are corrupt) than anyone here. After all, he's one of their slaves too.
Check out this phrase from the 1st paragraph: "another round of blackouts". That clearly states that something had happened prior.
Christ, I'm sounding like a lawyer! I've been hanging around you too long! LOL :p
BTW, I'm not trying to point fingers at Bede or anything. Just nitpicking, moreso at the corrupt elite (not meaning all elite are corrupt) than anyone here. After all, he's one of their slaves too.
boy and i will be at the show. looking forward to checking out fico's band for the first time!
Originally posted by Jaguar:We have these rolling blackouts once every few years, so I believe the author is just pointing out that's it looks like it be happening again. Just like "another wave of forest fires" - that simply means that it's the fall again in SoCal.
Check out this phrase from the 1st paragraph: "another round of blackouts". That clearly states that something had happened prior.
…..
BTW, I'm not trying to point fingers at Bede or anything. Just nitpicking, moreso at the corrupt elite (not meaning all elite are corrupt) than anyone here. After all, he's one of their slaves too.
Like terror threat levels, we have Energy stages. This is going to sound more and more like a Daily Show skit, but this is how we roll in CA. Stage 1 simply asks consumers to voluntarily conserve power usage, and when it's hot as hell, nobody does that. Especially when its hot at night. A Stage 2 emergency orders businesses under special contracts to curtail power.
We are currently at Stage 2 which is still a voluntary reduction in energy usage for all but those businesses (I work for one of those businesses). As an incentive, if you stay below a certain level, you get discounts on energy prices. If we get bumped up to Stage 3, that's when we get the rolling blackouts.
I think the PUC actually sends it employees home early to conserve energy in a stage two crisis, so that's why the decisions are made so haphazardly and nobody seems to know what's going on….and I am absolutely blaming Venerable for causing all of this. They gave him the big bucks to move all the way across the country and fix this and in his first 4 months of being on the job - status quo.
I'm starting a campaign to recall venerable bede a soon as I can turn my lights on.
Originally posted by Jaguar:at this time, there have been no ordered blackouts by the california iso, which is the group that manages the reliability of the grid. the blackouts discussed in the article are due to heat strain and/or fires near transmission lines that would threaten reliability. in any event. . .the california iso has a price cap on wholesale sales of electricity in the state.
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:Apparently, according to this article, there have been. But maybe you are trying to pull a fast one by using some kind of ever so crafty political jargon with your use of the phrase 'ordered by the california iso'. Maybe they aren't state ordered; I don't know. But to the average reader, it comes off like there were no blackouts in Calif. period.
as of right now, there have been no blackouts ordered by the california iso. . .in fact, i don't think there have been any blackouts anyway in the state. . new york and st. louis, that's a different matter.
With that said, the blackouts may be very warrented. I don't know. Understandable with the kind of weather in the area now and the demands. I just know that all of the different kinds of energy and oil companies are notorious for all of their dirty deeds at everyone elses' expense. After awhile, it's like that old cliché, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'.
Bet there aren't any blackouts up there at the Grove!
again. . .this is really nothing more than paranoia based on something where you have no idea what's going on. this same situation is going on all throughout this country- st. louis and nyc all are experiencing the same heat-related power failures.
the grove? i have no idea where/what that is. . i do like spending fall at the meadows, though.
Originally posted by vansmack:i wish i could go home. . oh wait, it's almost 5.
I think the PUC actually sends it employees home early to conserve energy in a stage two crisis, so that's why the decisions are made so haphazardly and nobody seems to know what's going on….and I am absolutely blaming Venerable for causing all of this. They gave him the big bucks to move all the way across the country and fix this and in his first 4 months of being on the job - status quo.
I'm starting a campaign to recall venerable bede a soon as I can turn my lights on.
in any event, smackie, you really don't want to know what i'm working on, cause its something that i support (and you know what that means).
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
the grove? i have no idea where/what that is. . i do like spending fall at the meadows, though.You really are an outsider, aren't you?
And again, it's not paranoia when you know crap like that really does go on. With that said, I think I now know more about the energy policies in the state of Calif. now than I do in Maryland.
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:Just what I suspected - Stage 4, where we invade Oregon and thus the "Energy Wars" have begun.
in any event, smackie, you really don't want to know what i'm working on, cause its something that i support (and you know what that means).
Lock your doors, Pollard and Random Citizen!! The Libertarians are coming and they've got "states rights" behind them!
Originally posted by Jaguar:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:ahhh. . maryland energy policies. . boy, could i go on about that.
the grove? i have no idea where/what that is. . i do like spending fall at the meadows, though.You really are an outsider, aren't you?
And again, it's not paranoia when you know crap like that really does go on. With that said, I think I now know more about the energy policies in the state of Calif. now than I do in Maryland.
and yes, it is paranoia when the first thing you think about when someone says blackout is "oh, what evil power company is withholding power this time." why aren't you considering malfeasance with the st. louis or nyc blackouts?
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by Jaguar:No, it's not. Paranoia has no basis in reality. Unfortunately, there is a history of that kind of stuff going on, be it legal or not. If you go back, you see that I only wondered, not stated that it was an absolute. Now, if you want to call me a cynic, go right ahead. :D
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:ahhh. . maryland energy policies. . boy, could i go on about that.
the grove? i have no idea where/what that is. . i do like spending fall at the meadows, though.You really are an outsider, aren't you?
And again, it's not paranoia when you know crap like that really does go on. With that said, I think I now know more about the energy policies in the state of Calif. now than I do in Maryland.
and yes, it is paranoia when the first thing you think about when someone says blackout is "oh, what evil power company is withholding power this time." why aren't you considering malfeasance with the st. louis or nyc blackouts?
I only noted Calif. because of it's connection to the servers being cut back at MySpace which is in Calif..
I'm not sure that I want to know anymore about the energy policies here in Maryland. Based on what I already know, I don't know if I'm more disgusted with the companies themselves or our crackpot politicians! Hey, I live in Maryland and if you know so much about what's going on here (and I assume you do) than you should fully understand why I'm so cynical about all of this! ;)
Originally posted by Jaguar:the legislature is entirely to blame for what will be happening with rates in maryland. . .
No, it's not. Paranoia has no basis in reality. Unfortunately, there is a history of that kind of stuff going on, be it legal or not. If you go back, you see that I only wondered, not stated that it was an absolute. Now, if you want to call me a cynic, go right ahead. :D
I'm not sure that I want to know anymore about the energy policies here in Maryland. Based on what I already know, I don't know if I'm more disgusted with the companies themselves or our crackpot politicians! Hey, I live in Maryland and if you know so much about what's going on here (and I assume you do) than you should fully understand why I'm so cynical about all of this! ;)
like i said before, the way the market was structured in california allowed for rampant and legal market manipulation. enron owned no generation, so there was no way for them to withhold power to meet the state's need. what enron could do was market power that it said it had access to, when it didn't, or, it would simply tell the california iso that it is making trades so that power would flow from north to south and back again, when no such movement was taking place, all to create congestion, which would decrease reliability. trust me, these are all arcane nuances of electricity engineering and economics- enron, like the book is called, were the smartest people in the room. they sought profit where profit was to be made.
so, yes, i believe that it is paranoia, because your understanding of the california market (despite best attempts) is not based on the reality. i don't care what lyndon larouche says about it, either.
now, if you don't mind. . .i have plane to catch so i can hob-nob at the meadows with other representatives from the pentaviret, where our power is generated by nuclear fisson battery packs.
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by Jaguar::roll:
[qb] so, yes, i believe that it is paranoia, because your understanding of the california market (despite best attempts) is not based on the reality. i don't care what lyndon larouche says about it, either.
You're still wrong. Paranoia is based on delusions. Paranoia and cyncism are two different things. You may know your energy policies but I know my psychology; so, get over it. And as you said, Enron had the smartest guys in the room. That's how that type get over. That much we agree on but based on your way of thinking, those who were wrong about how things would work out were also paranoid solely because they were not based on the reality that Enron, the victors, were working with.
And yes, I fully understand and agree about the politicians in Maryland but there's also some other factors about bond ratings and other credit issues involving Constellation Energy that come into play. Not to mention, Maryland politicians …. again. :roll: But I really don't feel like getting into this.
Go solar.
I just know that all of the different kinds of energy and oil companies are notorious for all of their dirty deeds at everyone elses' expense. After awhile, it's like that old clich̩, 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'.In my opinion, a great or even greater problem than corporate malfeasance is that nearly every household and every person insists on their electricity demand, exactly as is РPCs three to a home, central air in 3000 sq foot McMansions, a t.v. in every room, running washers/dryers several times a week (I know, you're not all in McMansions, but I'll bet nearly all of you have every electrical convenience you can afford).
And yet, with all that increased demand and the refusal to conserve in any personal way (outside of emergency 'stages,' though even then it's rarely truly voluntary), people protest nearly every attempt to construct additional infrastructure (you know, transmission lines, generator plants, natural gas pipelines, coal railroads). Even wind projects are nearly impossible to build anywhere along the east coast.
what the fuck do people think powers all their shit?
[Jag, not venting at you, just at the overall anger and pessimism levied at power companies while there's not only no sense of personal responsibility, but a skewed sense of "community concerns" keeping the very power people crave so difficult to build].
We now use 50% more electricity than we did only 20 years ago. And in 20 years, it's expected we'll need more than 50% additional power to meet demand.
20 years ain't a long time.
By the way, California is the worst offender. I know, I know, while one of the best states in terms of energy conservation, they refuse to allow just about any infrastructure of real use be built in their state. Their answer? Build it in the Southwest or Northwest. They can dirty their air and California will import 'clean' energy from them.
California likes to act like its own nation. A dream of mine is for it to be treated like its own continent…Hmm, no power from all those neighboring states, what's a continent to do?
Alas, Texas acts like its own country as well. But you know what, it's actually not interconnected to neighboring states, electricity wise. So they actually do sustain themselves fully.
Originally posted by Bags:Trade, just like every other nation in europe that gets its natural gas from Russia. You want avacados for your guacamole (or just about any other fruit or vegetable in this country)? Hook me up with some power! When that fails, we invade Oregon. Then Idaho.
California likes to act like its own nation. A dream of mine is for it to be treated like its own continent…Hmm, no power from all those neighboring states, what's a continent to do?