In honor of Dino Jr.'s return to the club,

hutch wrote:
Well of course its misleading to refer to what came before grunge as "hair metal"! Come on!

Thats not serious!

There was plenty of music before Nirvana broke that was not "hair metal" and unfortunately a lot of this music was thrown out with the Slaughters of the world….

Also if we call what came before "hair metal" why not call grunge "flannel heroin sludge": they are equally accurate in describing the MUSIC… actually "hair metal" is far less accurate..

There are some great grunge records for sure but overall its so boring and more importantly NOT FUN!

I think modern music is still paying for this "grunge revolution"…

The end of the guitar solo, the end of showmanship, the end of fun in rock and roll.. the end of lyrics about sex drugs and rock and roll basically is what grunge almost accomplished..I say almost because its all going to come back.. Look at the Creed show at Nissan. .They can't give the tickets away!

When you look back at what rock and roll is all about- Chuck Berry and his heirs (Stones, Flamin Groovies, ACDC)- and you compare it to grunge and nu-metal (puke) its hard not to develop an intense dislike for these..

Of course all the above probably should be tempered a few notches… There were good grunge bands. .there were grunge bands that did incorporate solos and even the ocassional smile.. but as a music movement I think grunge left us with awfully little….Not to mention that, yes, maybe MTV's decision to play "Smells Like Teen Spirit" 24-7 and never again play any videos by the very same bands they had played in the previous 5 years ad infinitum did kill "hair metal" but so what? To assume it would not or could not have been killed off by something more fun anyways seems silly to me. Lets remember that Nirvana was one of many indie bands being signed to the majors…There was plenty of great music being recorded in 89-91 that I think could have made things far more interesting than Nirvana and grunge…I think if Kurt was around today he would have been the first to admit it… heck he probably would have admitted it even before he took his life.

I mean lets call it what it is: the death of "hair metal" was a business and marketing decision… the same kids who were told that Motley Crue/Poison were cool were now told "hey kids, they're no longer cool go buy these other bands".. thats all it was!

Anyways its just an opinion… if other people like grunge then good for them…Personally I like having a good time and enjoying my life.. I think of rock and roll as a party…a celebration.. and grunge has nothing to do with that.. Do I like "unskinny bop"? Of course not…that song is garbage but you can't pick the worst stuff and say that everything that came before grunge was "unskinny bop"!

Damn…

All I'll say is that Kurt Cobain never hesitated to give props to the bands he liked/admired that didn't make it big.  He brought the fucking Meat Puppets on MTV Unplugged, for Christ's sake.  Speaking of, that is a wonderful performance.

I'll also agree that there are numerous great grunge records.

Regarding grunge (which is kind of as derogatory a term as hair metal really), and most music scenes, Warren Buffet's 3 I's of business apply . . . first you have innovators, then imitators, then idiots. 

 

hutch wrote:
Well of course its misleading to refer to what came before grunge as "hair metal"! Come on!

Thats not serious!

There was plenty of music before Nirvana broke that was not "hair metal" and unfortunately a lot of this music was thrown out with the Slaughters of the world….

Also if we call what came before "hair metal" why not call grunge "flannel heroin sludge": they are equally accurate in describing the MUSIC… actually "hair metal" is far less accurate..

There are some great grunge records for sure but overall its so boring and more importantly NOT FUN!

I think modern music is still paying for this "grunge revolution"…

The end of the guitar solo, the end of showmanship, the end of fun in rock and roll.. the end of lyrics about sex drugs and rock and roll basically is what grunge almost accomplished..I say almost because its all going to come back.. Look at the Creed show at Nissan. .They can't give the tickets away!

When you look back at what rock and roll is all about- Chuck Berry and his heirs (Stones, Flamin Groovies, ACDC)- and you compare it to grunge and nu-metal (puke) its hard not to develop an intense dislike for these..

Of course all the above probably should be tempered a few notches… There were good grunge bands. .there were grunge bands that did incorporate solos and even the ocassional smile.. but as a music movement I think grunge left us with awfully little….Not to mention that, yes, maybe MTV's decision to play "Smells Like Teen Spirit" 24-7 and never again play any videos by the very same bands they had played in the previous 5 years ad infinitum did kill "hair metal" but so what? To assume it would not or could not have been killed off by something more fun anyways seems silly to me. Lets remember that Nirvana was one of many indie bands being signed to the majors…There was plenty of great music being recorded in 89-91 that I think could have made things far more interesting than Nirvana and grunge…I think if Kurt was around today he would have been the first to admit it… heck he probably would have admitted it even before he took his life.

I mean lets call it what it is: the death of "hair metal" was a business and marketing decision… the same kids who were told that Motley Crue/Poison were cool were now told "hey kids, they're no longer cool go buy these other bands".. thats all it was!

Anyways its just an opinion… if other people like grunge then good for them…Personally I like having a good time and enjoying my life.. I think of rock and roll as a party…a celebration.. and grunge has nothing to do with that.. Do I like "unskinny bop"? Of course not…that song is garbage but you can't pick the worst stuff and say that everything that came before grunge was "unskinny bop"!

tl; piai; dr

Grunge is a stupid label.  But there were some great great bands to come from that scene…Mudhoney, The Fluid, Nirvana, the Melvins, Screaming Trees.  Of course these bands paved the way for the Nickelbacks, Creeds and 3 Doors Downs of today.  It's the way of the world kids.

And Hutch your dissertation is stupid.  I'll take real over a smile or "fun" any day of the week.  Sincerity is what's important, whatever the message being conveyed is.

If there's one thing in the world that pisses me it's a bunch of pollyannas telling me I should be having good time, cuz you know, life ain't all pony rides and puppy dogs.

To me life and the world are equally beautiful and fucked, equally triumphant and tragic.

Personally, other than some Nirvana, I can't think of a single Grunge band that I've ever liked. Ugh!

Also, Hair Metal existed way before Grunge so I don't see any relationship between the two at all. Eventually, some merged Grunge and Hair Metal but blending eventually happens between all genres.

Plus, it sure doesn't help that Grunge pre-empted the Shoegaze movement which, that and Psychedelic are my all time favorite genres. Thank God for resurgances!!! Just please keep all Grunge out of my ears! Hair Metal too!

Chaz, I fully agree with you regarding music with mixed ideas. Can't stand having all of my music full of flowers and candy. Bring on Spiritualized's fucked up Johnny and Lupine Howl's cold turkey puke along with older Punk's pissy angst.

Excuse me while I switch channels.

I saw a couple grunge retrospectives where they had some of fading fast hair metal bands moaning on about when grunge came along their careers stalled…  and to be fair Nirvana weren't really a grunge band, sure they had the flannel and were from Washington, but they had different musically influences, i.e. Pixies, Killing Joke, etc.

Kosmo, I want to apologize. I miss-read your earlier post.

Grunge was so powerful in the Rock world that I think it stopped everything else in it's tracks, both good and bad. Of course, it all boils down to your own personal likes and dislikes but it sure hurt my musical ears for a loooong time.

hutch wrote:


The end of the guitar solo, the end of showmanship, the end of fun in rock and roll..

Spin. Doctors.  Grunge was definitely fun! Just look at them smiling, soloing, and having fun on Letterman. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAlQ1cR6X9Q&feature=related

Julian, wrote:
piai

Primary Immunodeficiency Association of Ireland?  postoperative intra-abdominal infection?  Perish in an Inferno? 

poster is an idiot

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
piai

Primary Immunodeficiency Association of Ireland?  postoperative intra-abdominal infection?  Perish in an Inferno? 

yours was better way better, sweet . . . sorry, julian.  you know, this thread is the epitome of why i still enjoi this forum.  first it begins as a kind offering of a show, in which i rip apart with my bashful comments of a horrible setlist which spirals into us two bickbackering between blips of why dinosuar should or should not of had those wastes of master tapes called the two first albums.  then the debacle of those mighty ones of many posts who have fallen off the board, then others joining into the mix to discuss the scene of those past monkeys hurling shit and calling it grunge music and what it did it to warrant/kix/poison/guns-n-roses/etc…, which finally has morphed into where it is now.  good job gang, you deserves kudos and cat treats all around!

You forgot to mention the part where everyone except Jaguar told you how wrong and crazy you are for dissing the first two albums.

azaghal1981 wrote:
You forgot to mention the part where everyone except Jaguar told you how wrong and crazy you are for dissing the first two albums.

touché  cat is too lazy to go find a picture.

I'm ok with people saying Dinosaur isn't all that great. It's a classic, early-band album where they show some promise and but it comes across as very uneven. I would even put some of the later albums ahead of it, particularly Green Mind. It's the dislike for YLAOM that specifically scares the shit outta me.

Julian, wrote:
I'm ok with people saying Dinosaur isn't all that great. It's a classic, early-band album where they show some promise and but it comes across as very uneven. I would even put some of the later albums ahead of it, particularly Green Mind. It's the dislike for YLAOM that specifically scares the shit outta me.

one good song, in a jar, tops.  the mere awesome power of it coming from show amps is like bill o'reily screaming "do it live!".  and the bonus, just like heaven, show me the way covers ain't what all the kids think their cracked up to be (meaning, they're crap).  plus poledo scars the disk with the mere presence of itself.  j. knew it was time to take over the controls of the band when that song grated the grinder of a scene that would be generating grunge.  the cover explains it all.  "this music is making a man attempt to escape my head as i listen to this album."

ylaom is one of my top 5 favorite albums ever. such crazy talk

It is truly a monster of an album.  J.'s playing on that album is just fucking epic.

Question:  I've owned a few editions of this album, some ending with "Just Like Heaven" and one that ended with and awsome deconstruction of Peter Frampton's "Show me the Way".  What is the story with this?  I'm pretty sure the frampton version came first cuz I had the SST version of the album shortly after it came out but have always wondered about this.

chaz wrote:
It is truly a monster of an album.  J.'s playing on that album is just fucking epic.

Question:  I've owned a few editions of this album, some ending with "Just Like Heaven" and one that ended with and awsome deconstruction of Peter Frampton's "Show me the Way".  What is the story with this?  I'm pretty sure the frampton version came first cuz I had the SST version of the album shortly after it came out but have always wondered about this.

source, wiki: 
Dinosaur recorded much of their second album You're Living All Over Me with Sonic Youth engineer Wharton Tiers in New York. During the recording process, tension emerged between Mascis and Murph because Mascis had very specific ideas for the drum parts. Barlow recalled, "J controlled Murph's every drumbeat…And Murph could not handle that. Murph wanted to kill J for the longest time."[8] Gerard Cosloy was excited by the completed album, but was devastated when Mascis told him the band was going to release it on SST Records. Mascis was reluctant to sign a two-album deal with Homestead, but Cosloy felt betrayed; Cosloy said, "There was no way I couldn't take it personally."[9] After the album's completion Mascis moved to New York, leaving the rest of the band feeling alienated.[10]

(you see . . . this album ruined the band).

from wiki, as well:

The album was originally issued when the band were still known as Dinosaur, before a lawsuit forced the name change to Dinosaur Jr. The album was recalled by SST a few months after release, and new copies were printed crediting the band as Dinosaur Jr.

10. "Show Me the Way" (Bonus track on SST CD version) Peter Frampton 3:45
11. "Just Like Heaven" (Bonus track on 2005 Merge Records reissue & 2005 Imperial Records reissue) The Cure 2:53
12. "Throw Down" (Bonus tracks on 2005 Imperial Records reissue)

if the band was ruined, wouldnt that mean every thing after ylaom was bad

Loveless "ruined" MBV and that album couldn't possibly be more perfect. Sorry Walkies, you're not going to win this argument.