LiveNation/Ticketmaster merger (petition to block)

Julian, wrote:

Seth wrote:
Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it

Just because a KKK member writes a discertation about how bringing back slavery would create a cheap workforce and boost the economy, doesn't mean we should make him the Chariman of the Federal Reserve.

Quite true but I think you've lost sight of the difference between a snow job and a blow job.

Seth wrote:
Personally, I always try to consider a point someone is making, regardless of their agenda

even when it's you

wow  :o haha  ;D

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?

none?  seriously?  how about having good artists perform at the club?  ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return?  providing a safe environment?  these are some of my best interests…

None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.

you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?  one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that.  they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it.  they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?

none?  seriously?  how about having good artists perform at the club?  ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return?  providing a safe environment?  these are some of my best interests…

None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.

you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?  one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that.  they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it.  they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

And that is one of the major chunks of meat of the issue.

Thank you Sweets, for serving it up.

sweetcell wrote:
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? 

I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

Julian, wrote:

Seth wrote:
Just because a weatherman owns a snow plowing company, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe him if he says it's going to snow and has the data to prove it

Just because a KKK member writes a discertation about how bringing back slavery would create a cheap workforce and boost the economy, doesn't mean we should make him the Chariman of the Federal Reserve.

"discertation"

Is that the Richmond spelling?

I once went to Richmond with a girlfriend back in the late 90's. Upon coming back to her car, we found a leaflet promoting a local KKK meeting on our windshield.

True story.

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? 

I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

That is where the other pieces of meat come into play. Many of us don't want the Grade B cuts when we can have Grade A. Besides, historically, once a monopoly; or duopoly in some cases; gets in and takes over, that's when they then ratchet up the prices even further and offer less to the paying public while pushing all the locals out of the game plan. You think Jiffy Lube Live is laughable? Just wait till you get pure Wal-Martizing of the bigger concert scene. It effects much more than just seeing Brand X at Club A or Club B. Much, much more.

And Rhett, screw it with the spelling nit picking! You're worrying about whether you're putting butter or margarine on your broccoli (I know you're a veg.) instead of whether or not it's a nice stalk of organic instead of over-cooked and processed frozen crap.

James Ford is a veg?  Is that the secret to his beauty?

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? 

I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?and there was no one left to speak out.

wml7 wrote:

Seth wrote:
Personally, I always try to consider a point someone is making, regardless of their agenda

even when it's you

wow  :o haha  ;D

LOL, I knew something better than I expected would come out of this thread.  :D Hahaha, that just made my day……

What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

Yeah cause Seth hasn't been pushing up prices.

Its not just LN pushing up prices.. its the competition between LN and IMP..its the artists who don't sell records anymore and need to make their money on concerts…

Last time I checked both IMP and LN book concerts at the substandard DAR… both screw over patrons on ticket charges..both suck as much out of you on beer prices…

In fact, IMP arguably charges more for beer than LN.

But I mean what is really the argument here? That because LN merges with TM they will limit artists from playing the 930? How exactly?

And how would LN drive out IMP??? Right now IMP seems to me to be doing far better… LN in this area is limited to the Warner (rare concert here and there/high costs due to unions), the ocasional rental at DAR or Patriot and the shitshow at Nissan now Jiffy Lube..

IMP has it pretty good with the 930, Merriweather and their rentals at DAR plus bookings at Ramshead Live etc…I'd say IMP is actually handily taking it to LN and I don't see that changing because LN owns a ticket service provider or what have you…

If IMP really wants to defeat LN or protect his position he should build a bigger venue..a state of the art 930 style place but for 2500-3000.. and stop worrying so much about LN. He could then forget about DAR/preempt the LN Fillmore in Silver Spring and book bands like Wilco guaranteening them more money per performance.. They would not have to play the Strathmore….

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
from someone who doesn't have any of our best interest in mind. riously?

none?  seriously?  how about having good artists perform at the club?  ensuring patrons enjoy themselves and want to return?  providing a safe environment?  these are some of my best interests…

None of those things have anything to do with his comments on the LN/TM merger, and any claim otherwise is simply fearmongering.

you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club?  one might answer "not any more than LN already does", but i don't buy that.  they're consolidating to take over the industry and squeeze as much as they can out of it.  they'll be in that much better position to do so after the merger.

thats part of my whole point with posting this article/petition. if you honestly think prices will stay the same with the merger going thru, you've had one too many drinks and do not understand basic supply and demand in economics when it comes to the business world. ever been thru a merger at a company? they lay-off/rearrange staff, make budget cuts, and try to hit their new financial goals within the fiscal with what the two merging companies have planned. which means, prices that people are used to paying as concert goers in this instance will get higher.

if they don't drive up prices, its a damn miracle……

just something to think on……

Julian, wrote:
If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?

Honestly the IMP groupies need to get real.

sweetcell wrote:

Julian, wrote:
If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

now you're making no sense, because clubs aren't nondescript.  concert venues are not undifferentiated products.  

you don't care if a show is at the RnR hotel vs. the 930?  i definitely have a preference.  

Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.

Vas wrote:
James Ford is a veg?  Is that the secret to his beauty?

And you thought that he was just a tool.  :D

Rhett, I do agree with you that we need to keep the apples in one basket and the oranges in another as one can't compare one venue to another when their size capacity is much different. Stick to similiars and then we've got fair ground to argue.

Seth wrote:

Julian, wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
you don't think that the merger will limit artists from performing at the club? 

I guess other then Seth, IMP employees, and about 100 people on here who absolutely cannot pry their lips of IMP's metaphoric dick, no one else in the world really thinks that's a terrible thing. If bands continue to play the exact same city at similar ticket costs, then most people really don't care if it takes place in Nondescript Club A or Nondescript Club B.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out?because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out?because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me?and there was no one left to speak out.

Odd that you posted this; and very accurate and appropriate. Earlier I almost posted this quote by Mohandas Gandhi, as it's been very important and true for me lately:

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

hutch wrote:
Thats right and DAR BLOWS and IMP has no problem booking shows there.. Whats your point?

DAR doesn't suck.  you might believe so, i and many others don't.  i've been to plenty of shows that sounded great there.  i'd like arcade fire to play in my living room too, but that ain't gonna happen.  so what was your point?

James wrote:
Well RNR Hotel IS a much smaller venue, so given the choice, I'd rather see a band play there.

seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit.   i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people. 

also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR.  when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.

azaghal1981 wrote:
What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.

Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.