LiveNation/Ticketmaster merger (petition to block)

Jaguar wrote:
That is where the other pieces of meat come into play. Many of us don't want the Grade B cuts when we can have Grade A. Besides, historically, once a monopoly; or duopoly in some cases; gets in and takes over, that's when they then ratchet up the prices even further and offer less to the paying public while pushing all the locals out of the game plan.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you seem unable to understand that your OPINION that the 930 Club is fundamentally better then every "corporate" venue out there is a small, minority opinion not shared by the majority of consumers, first of all.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right on that. The 9:30 Club and the experience with attending it is better then attending a similar LiveNation owned venue. It is Grade A meat, as opposed to Grade B. Do you want filet mignon instead of Taco Bell ground beef? OK, that's your prerogative. Are you willing to pay slightly more to have it? Again, super. If this legislation passes, it is not as though the police are going to come the next day and put yellow tape over the 930 Club's doors. They will still be open, and if you want to go, great! And if average ticket costs at 930 club are, I dunno, $30, and at a LiveNation venue, $25, then you and everyone else will have the absolute right to pay the $5 more to see a show there. And if enough people want filet mignon, then both can co-exist. And if too many are willing to settle for Taco Bell ground beef, then that's the unseen hand of free market economy at work. But fighting to not letting people have options and make their own choice just because you fear your choice will be so massively unpopular that it won't remain financially viable is just selfish.

sweetcell wrote:seeing a band in a smaller venue is great, but not the RnR - it's cramped, sight lines are horrible, gets way to hot, and the PA sounds like shit.   i'd rather have better sound in a nicer club, at the expense of having to share the space with more people. 

also, i wonder how much our tastes in bands explain this difference: you generally prefer smaller acts that actually play the RnR.  when those bands "move up" to the 930, you've typically lost interest, prefer their earlier work, etc.

I've had the complete opposite experience at RnR. Except for the "gets way too hot" comment. That I have experienced. But the sound, IMO, has been pretty on point.

And by smaller acts playing at RnR, I don't think there's as many as you say there are. From what I've seen, much more smaller acts played at places more like The Red & Black, Velvet Lounge, Asylum, and DC9. Occasionally, that back space at The Black Cat, too. I get your point about when they "move up" though……

I bought some tickets through ticketmaster the other day.  The service fee was actually lower than ticketfly/930 Club.  I just post this because I know Julian would want to know.

The sound at RNRH reminds me of a poorly ripped mp3. Exact same tinniness that makes me want to turn a bad mp3 off.

Julian, wrote:

azaghal1981 wrote:
What makes you think prices will stay the same? If TM/LN drive their competition out of business or limit them to smaller niches, you can bet your ass that they will push prices up as high as the market will bear; leaving most concert-going to the disgustingly rich.

I think this because I'm a firm believer in the Gospel Doctorine of Hurwitz Economy. When we were talking about a Silver Spring venue, all we heard from Seth was that competition is bad! Why, if you have only one venue wanting Band X to come play, Band X pretty much has to take their offer or leave it, but if you have two, well, then you have a bidding war, and the higher cost eventually paid to the band gets passed along in ticket prices.

Seems only reasonable that if the Hurwitz DC monopoly has kept prices relatively low (because, hey, Seth doesn't price gouge, right?), just imagine the same principle applied nationally. Bands have to take it or leave it when it comes to initial offers to play because there's nowhere else for them to go. Cost to venue = low, ergo, prices past along to consumers don't have to respond to competition. Bad for bands, good for me as a consumer.

As usual you leave out key points in the timeline.

Originally the SS Venue was intended to be a cabaret style with seating and lower capacity, which the owners of Birchmere (aka local DC competition) were in negotiations  with the County for several years over. 

Those talks sudden broke down and within months the county reached a deal with Live Nation, with out offering IMP the opportunity to even submit a counter proposal.  When the county executive claims to know nothing about one of the largest independent promoters who happens to located in his own back yard and instead turned immediately to LiveNation, one begins to wonder. 

It's not the just the threat of competition that get people's attention, but when it's done with essentially what amounts to corporate welfare it's should come under fire.

So if LiveNation is this huge powerhouse, why didn't they build their own venue prior to the SS deal?

Not to mention the fact that the LN venue is being partially subsidized by our (us citizens of Montgomery County of which Seth is one) tax dollars. I would be kind of bitter too if I had a business and was forced to pay for the development of a competing business that will lie a few miles from my business.

In slides Kosmo with the winning punch!!!

Such an important point that cannot be brushed aside so easily as though it's some minor and unimportant detail. Even if you don't like Seth and/or IMP, one must recognize what a dirty and lowdown backroom deal this was against the citizens' best interests.

Julian, what I've been saying is not just my 'opinion' as you'd prefer to believe. These things do happen all the time and more and more often lately.

You really need to see the bigger picture and not just some smaller detail that can be twisted around to suit your grudge against Seth's business. Yes, you've made some good points but they lose value when examined in relation to the bigger picture.

Another angle that has not been addressed within this thread is how this all affects the various bands. The exclusivity contracts and takes on ticket sales and such. Would love to read about some of those points since most of us only know very little, if nothing at all, regarding how this affects them. On the positive side, it provides a powerful backer to get them out and about the country. On the downside, from what I've heard, they take bigger advantage of the bands, ticket takes and limits their choice of specific venues they would love to play. Mind Cage should jump in here.  ;)

monopolies are bad no matter how you look at it and they should not allow it to happen.

so far, i've seen two petitions and neither have many signatures.

i'm surprised there isnt a facebook page against the merger. also surprised more people arent complaining about it

Julian - do ever get tired of being so negative and accusatory?  You bring me down.

merger approved with conditions

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger

Vas wrote:
merger approved with conditions

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger

Of course! Again, it's all part of the nue-Fascism.

Seth, thanks for trying.  :-\

What a joke those "conditions" are.


Get ready for more 360 deals. And with smaller artists.

Ugggg! This is not going to be pretty. I cant wait to see the effects of this one, as Im already sacrificing going to shows due to costs. I can only hope smaller venues either continue to operate as is or at least avoid ticketmaster/livenation if they end up doing advance sales. Im beginning to like Cakeshop quite a bit as well as Mercury shows that dont sell tix in advance.

azaghal1981 wrote:
What a joke those "conditions" are.


Get ready for more 360 deals. And with smaller artists.

Out of curiosity, what's the general feeling on the board about an auction based ticketing system for shows with reserved seating? 

I personally would guess that's the model Live Nation/Ticketmaster is going to aim toward, to provide greater flexibility for less desirable seats and opportunities to maximize profits on premium seating.  This would also effectively kill StubHub and other secondary ticketing marketplaces for assigned seats…

Sage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the general feeling on the board about an auction based ticketing system for shows with reserved seating? 

there has been talk of this for some time, and i believe it's inevitable for high-demand shows.  i'm not opposed to it.  if there is additional income to be captured, it should go to those who are involved with the show (ideally, the artists).  i wonder how artists feel about this - just because you're able and willing to pay big bucks to sit/stand up front doesn't mean it's the kind of audience the band wants to play for and look at.

why limit auctions to reserved seats?  as yesterday's radiohead show proved, you can auction off GA tickets as well.  it's all about how much demand there is.

I believe bands are going to utilize a web-based social network-like essay system whereby those who desire tickets will have 100 characters in which to explain why they deserve tickets and better seats than others.  These will not actually be read by the band but will be processed via an algorithm that scores entries based on the occurrence of key words, phrases, and punctuation marks such as "OMG" "!!" and "your first EP on red vinyl."  These will be cross-referenced with a credit check and tickets will be priced on a means-tested sliding scale. 

Really, it's the only fair way to do it.

^This would give DFA1979 all the best tickets. ;D

and it is born.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100125/ap_on_hi_te/us_live_nation_ticketmaster_merger_6

Walkies, you've been scooped.


Look above.

Those defending DAR are either high on crack or simply looking at it from the vantage point of the few who have the choice seats (or are on the IMP payroll).. The "venue" largely has shitty sightlines, shitty acoustics and you can't even have a beer while watching a show (though they'[ll gladly sell it to you!).. Basically it blows.. It was never meant to be a music venue.. its a place to hear a speech by Al Gore. I've seen numerous shows there from Nina Simone to the Pixies to the Experience Hendrix to the Pet Shop Boys and yes if you are within twenty rows of the stage on the floor the sound can be ok (Pixies) but otherwise forget about it (Nina, PSB) .. Its embarassing that Seth - like  Live Nation- continue to rent this venue. At least LN is looking to build a decent venue.

Of course we know why they rent it to put on shows…MONEY. NOT because they give a shit about my concert experience.

Doesn't mean one can't have a good time but MOST people at a DAR show will get a substandard product and to keep arguing otherwise is asinine.

I no longer go see shows at Dar cause it blows and FYI I am not the only one.

The TM-LN merger getting approved is about as surprising as the fact the sun is currently shining somewhere. And you know whats funny: the same reasons why Seth rents Dar are why the merger got approved, money.