Edward Snowden Playlist

Kind of a shame there's a few bad apples who have to go and "spoil" it for us all. So how do you propose they stop the bad apples from doing bad things, like blowing shit up?

sweetcell wrote:

James wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the government monitoring my phone and internet conversations. Why would they even care about a conversation I had with my brother about beer, or about what my mom said when she was blathering on about American Idol? It's not like they are sitting there listening to every word anyway. Their ears would only perk up if someone uttered some kind of terrorist bullshit keywords. Which doesn't happen.

i get what you're saying, my emails and phone conversations aren't that interesting either.  however, it says a lot about a society and how its government regards its citizens.  this is a variation on the "if you've got nothing to hide you'll have nothing to fear" argument, which has been torn to shreds by many:

- http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
- http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
- http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html
- http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
- http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/19/debunking-the-dangerous-nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear/
etc…

James wrote:
Kind of a shame there's a few bad apples who have to go and "spoil" it for us all. So how do you propose they stop the bad apples from doing bad things, like blowing shit up?

sweetcell wrote:

James wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the government monitoring my phone and internet conversations. Why would they even care about a conversation I had with my brother about beer, or about what my mom said when she was blathering on about American Idol? It's not like they are sitting there listening to every word anyway. Their ears would only perk up if someone uttered some kind of terrorist bullshit keywords. Which doesn't happen.

i get what you're saying, my emails and phone conversations aren't that interesting either.  however, it says a lot about a society and how its government regards its citizens.  this is a variation on the "if you've got nothing to hide you'll have nothing to fear" argument, which has been torn to shreds by many:

- http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
- http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
- http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html
- http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
- http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/19/debunking-the-dangerous-nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear/
etc…

ah the assumption that this is really preventing stuff from being blown up.. why? because the head of the National Spy Agency told you so?

I seem to recall all the blacklists of "communists" in the 50s, all the ruines innocent lives, were also to protect our national security..

protect me as best as you can while respecting my rights…once you trample on them what exactly are you protecting? My right to live an unfree life freely???

I'd rather them know what beer my brother is drinking than have someone blow up the government building I'm working in.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Kind of a shame there's a few bad apples who have to go and "spoil" it for us all. So how do you propose they stop the bad apples from doing bad things, like blowing shit up?

sweetcell wrote:

James wrote:
I actually don't have a problem with the government monitoring my phone and internet conversations. Why would they even care about a conversation I had with my brother about beer, or about what my mom said when she was blathering on about American Idol? It's not like they are sitting there listening to every word anyway. Their ears would only perk up if someone uttered some kind of terrorist bullshit keywords. Which doesn't happen.

i get what you're saying, my emails and phone conversations aren't that interesting either.  however, it says a lot about a society and how its government regards its citizens.  this is a variation on the "if you've got nothing to hide you'll have nothing to fear" argument, which has been torn to shreds by many:

- http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
- http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110524/00084614407/privacy-is-not-secrecy-debunking-if-youve-got-nothing-to-hide-argument.shtml
- http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/the-data-trust-blog/2009/02/debunking-a-myth-if-you-have-n.html
- http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565
- http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/19/debunking-the-dangerous-nothing-to-hide-nothing-to-fear/
etc…

ah the assumption that this is really preventing stuff from being blown up.. why? because the head of the National Spy Agency told you so?

I seem to recall all the blacklists of "communists" in the 50s, all the ruines innocent lives, were also to protect our national security..

protect me as best as you can while respecting my rights…once you trample on them what exactly are you protecting? My right to live an unfree life freely???

James wrote:
I'd rather them know what beer my brother is drinking than have someone blow up the government building I'm working in.

you think them knowing what beer your brother is drinking is going to prevent your building from being blown up?

;D

It is really amazing how afraid people are.. they will give up their rights because they fear death… they have no problem having others die for them though…others dying to protect those same rights they willing give up…..


I don't mind dying as long as I'm living free. The Government has no business knowing what I talk bout or what I do on the internet.. not unless they can show probable cause….. And lets get this straight: spying on ME is somehow going to prevent some Saudi terrorist from blowing ME up? The whole thing is laughable and I am sorry for people that buy this false choice "rationale"… that you can only be safe if you give up your rights or something…..

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
I'd rather them know what beer my brother is drinking than have someone blow up the government building I'm working in.

you think them knowing what beer your brother is drinking is going to prevent your building from being blown up?

;D

Only communists drink [insert brand] beer!  /McCarthy hearing/

Must suck living a life in which you think there are boogiemen wishing to blow you up lurking around every corner. "They have already won" (as they say) if you go around with that fear and are willing to compromise basic civil liberties because of it.

Might suck for you, but as I have already said, I'm perfectly happy with the arrangement. As long as nobody in my family gets blown up, the government can know what kind of beers my brother drinks and what my mom thinks of American Idol.

azaghal1981 wrote:
Must suck living a life in which you think there are boogiemen wishing to blow you up lurking around every corner. "They have already won" (as they say) if you go around with that fear and are willing to compromise basic civil liberties because of it.

So you are happy to give up basic civil liberties in return for a false sense of security. Got it.

I have to go through an x-ray machine every time I enter my workplace. I'm willing to do that to keep somebody out who may have a bomb strapped to them. What's the difference?

azaghal1981 wrote:
So you are happy to give up basic civil liberties in return for a false sense of security. Got it.

the kicker is that while the government doesn't tell you all the ways they will illegally violate your rights many of the things they really could be doing to prevent terrorism they will not do..

because the way to prevent terrorism is not to move towards creating a police state (which is where this pretty much is right now)..its like, you know, stop buying oil from the Saudis to prop up that piece of shit "government" or, you know, stop being Israel's bitch… it may not seem to you you are Israel's bitch but you are Israel's bitch and, you know, the world gets it.. you may not get it over here where you can't walk three blocks without seeing some Israeli propaganda about the next war we should get into, you know, over there, you know, really far from over here, you know, cause they can't do it with, you know, the money and technology, you know, we give them.. so yeah, is Iran the bad guy or is it Syria this week, who the fuck knows anymore, well, you know, whoever's botherin', you know, Israel but, you know, the rest of the world gets that but over here we're spying on our own people cause, yeah, that is the way to prevent terrorism.. well whatever helps you sleep at night mate… basically the American people seem like a bunch of cowed pussies on this one and the government very cleverly will continue to play the fear card scaring and lying and telling you- hey its either you let us violate your rights or they'll blow up your government building…

hutch wrote:
the kicker is that while the government doesn't tell you all the ways they will illegally violate your rights many of the things they really could be doing to prevent terrorism they will not do..

because the way to prevent terrorism is not to move towards creating a police state (which is where this pretty much is right now)..its like, you know, stop buying oil from the Saudis to prop up that piece of shit "government" or, you know, stop being Israel's bitch… it may not seem to you you are Israel's bitch but you are Israel's bitch and, you know, the world gets it.. you may not get it over here where you can't walk three blocks without seeing some Israeli propaganda about the next war we should get into, you know, over there, you know, really far from over here, you know, cause they can't do it with, you know, the money and technology, you know, we give them.. so yeah, is Iran the bad guy or is it Syria this week, who the fuck knows anymore, well, you know, whoever's botherin', you know, Israel but, you know, the rest of the world gets that but over here we're spying on our own people cause, yeah, that is the way to prevent terrorism.. well whatever helps you sleep at night mate… basically the American people seem like a bunch of cowed pussies on this one and the government very cleverly will continue to play the fear card scaring and lying and telling you- hey its either you let us violate your rights or they'll blow up your government building…

Strange coming from someone who voted for Obama twice.  Should have voted Green Party with me. 

atomicfront wrote:

hutch wrote:
the kicker is that while the government doesn't tell you all the ways they will illegally violate your rights many of the things they really could be doing to prevent terrorism they will not do..

because the way to prevent terrorism is not to move towards creating a police state (which is where this pretty much is right now)..its like, you know, stop buying oil from the Saudis to prop up that piece of shit "government" or, you know, stop being Israel's bitch… it may not seem to you you are Israel's bitch but you are Israel's bitch and, you know, the world gets it.. you may not get it over here where you can't walk three blocks without seeing some Israeli propaganda about the next war we should get into, you know, over there, you know, really far from over here, you know, cause they can't do it with, you know, the money and technology, you know, we give them.. so yeah, is Iran the bad guy or is it Syria this week, who the fuck knows anymore, well, you know, whoever's botherin', you know, Israel but, you know, the rest of the world gets that but over here we're spying on our own people cause, yeah, that is the way to prevent terrorism.. well whatever helps you sleep at night mate… basically the American people seem like a bunch of cowed pussies on this one and the government very cleverly will continue to play the fear card scaring and lying and telling you- hey its either you let us violate your rights or they'll blow up your government building…

Strange coming from someone who voted for Obama twice.  Should have voted Green Party with me. 

yeah, how did your Green Party do man? I only remember blue and red on election night?

James Ford must have clocked out of his government job cause he hasn't commented in, oh, you know, 20 minutes…. it is past 4.

the american people are so blind to the luxuries, yes full on flat out fucking luxuries, that you have everyday.  your home, your bed, your running water bathrooms, your jobs, your cars, your toys, your food, your fun, your life, your roads, your hospitals, your vacations, your concerts, your clothes, your water, your electricity, your freedom of speech and expression, your freedom to invent and to create, your freedom to explore and be who you are, your freedom to type on a computer and have your voice heard, your freedom to not like this or love that, your freedom to be with who you want, the freedom to non conform . . . .

you cannot have everything in freedom, or freedom would not work.  nothing exists with one side to only answer to, for with every evil there is an every good, every con with every pro, every yang to every ying.  it is how it works, so accept it and be lucky you live in a country where you have the freedom to openly question it, to make those everys a better thing. 

the end

walkonby wrote:
the american people are so blind to the luxuries, yes full on flat out fucking luxuries, that you have everyday.  your home, your bed, your running water bathrooms, your jobs, your cars, your toys, your food, your fun, your life, your roads, your hospitals, your vacations, your concerts, your clothes, your water, your electricity, your freedom of speech and expression, your freedom to invent and to create, your freedom to explore and be who you are, your freedom to type on a computer and have your voice heard, your freedom to not like this or love that, your freedom to be with who you want, the freedom to non conform . . . .

you cannot have everything in freedom, or freedom would not work.  nothing exists with one side to only answer to, for with every evil there is an every good, every con with every pro, every yang to every ying.  it is how it works, so accept it and be lucky you live in a country where you have the freedom to openly question it, to make those everys a better thing. 

the end

freedom isn't free!

so we can't really be free.. we must be partially free?

i am confused… i thought they hated us cause of our freedom or something? but we don't have freedom cause of the ying yang pro con?

but America is still the best right..right.. RIGHT?

NUMBER ONE BABY!

yes . . . america is still the best, but arent we all a little biased when it comes to such statements.  im sure people throwing another koala on the barbie will claim the land down under to be the best.  and yes,  freedom has never been free, and taxes prove that. 

well that's a relief..

hutch wrote:

atomicfront wrote:

hutch wrote:
the kicker is that while the government doesn't tell you all the ways they will illegally violate your rights many of the things they really could be doing to prevent terrorism they will not do..

because the way to prevent terrorism is not to move towards creating a police state (which is where this pretty much is right now)..its like, you know, stop buying oil from the Saudis to prop up that piece of shit "government" or, you know, stop being Israel's bitch… it may not seem to you you are Israel's bitch but you are Israel's bitch and, you know, the world gets it.. you may not get it over here where you can't walk three blocks without seeing some Israeli propaganda about the next war we should get into, you know, over there, you know, really far from over here, you know, cause they can't do it with, you know, the money and technology, you know, we give them.. so yeah, is Iran the bad guy or is it Syria this week, who the fuck knows anymore, well, you know, whoever's botherin', you know, Israel but, you know, the rest of the world gets that but over here we're spying on our own people cause, yeah, that is the way to prevent terrorism.. well whatever helps you sleep at night mate… basically the American people seem like a bunch of cowed pussies on this one and the government very cleverly will continue to play the fear card scaring and lying and telling you- hey its either you let us violate your rights or they'll blow up your government building…

Strange coming from someone who voted for Obama twice.  Should have voted Green Party with me. 

yeah, how did your Green Party do man? I only remember blue and red on election night?

They came in third because people like you deserted us to vote in candidates that had zero in common with you politically because you thought a win was more important than doing what was right.,

There is also the sending flying robots to bomb impoverished villages thing.
If anything, that breeds many more terrorists than it stamps out and that shoe has yet to drop.

hutch wrote:
the kicker is that while the government doesn't tell you all the ways they will illegally violate your rights many of the things they really could be doing to prevent terrorism they will not do..

because the way to prevent terrorism is not to move towards creating a police state (which is where this pretty much is right now)..its like, you know, stop buying oil from the Saudis to prop up that piece of shit "government" or, you know, stop being Israel's bitch… it may not seem to you you are Israel's bitch but you are Israel's bitch and, you know, the world gets it.. you may not get it over here where you can't walk three blocks without seeing some Israeli propaganda about the next war we should get into, you know, over there, you know, really far from over here, you know, cause they can't do it with, you know, the money and technology, you know, we give them.. so yeah, is Iran the bad guy or is it Syria this week, who the fuck knows anymore, well, you know, whoever's botherin', you know, Israel but, you know, the rest of the world gets that but over here we're spying on our own people cause, yeah, that is the way to prevent terrorism.. well whatever helps you sleep at night mate… basically the American people seem like a bunch of cowed pussies on this one and the government very cleverly will continue to play the fear card scaring and lying and telling you- hey its either you let us violate your rights or they'll blow up your government building…