Donald Trump is a fascist

Donald Trump is a fascist.

Relevant further listening…

America's Next Top Dictator
https://soundcloud.com/unpopularopinion/unp-103

The Last Trump Show
https://soundcloud.com/unpopularopinion/unp-105

Reading:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-comparing-donald-trump-to-hitler-makes-perfect-sense/

This seems like an odd place to post this as it's highly doubtful there are any Trump voters who post or even lurk here…am I wrong?

I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod…

but sometimes wonder if people know what terms like "socialism", "fascism", "communism"  or "capitalism" even mean anymore..

have heard President Obama called a fascist and a socialist…

Space wrote:
This seems like an odd place to post this as it's highly doubtful there are any Trump voters who post or even lurk here…am I wrong?

always pegged GGW as a supporter, but probably voted for Gary Johnson in 2012

Rat B (who's been quiet for a long time)..sure he loves the Donald

other than a few closet republicans…a indie rock club board doesn't typically attract anything but liberals (god love em)

GGW doesn't vote (except in the occasional local election).  To be honest, I really don't see much of a difference between Trump and Clinton.  Or Sanders and Carson.  Or any of them.  The American two-party system is exclusively about each party maintaining and expanding their own collective wealth and power.  If you think any of these people really give a shit about me, you, or the average Joe, you're an idiot.  In theory, their self-interest should overlap with the common good somewhat.  But I find it less a Venn diagram than a couple of random boobs floating in their own orbit.   

ggw wrote:
GGW doesn't vote (except in the occasional local election).  To be honest, I really don't see much of a difference between Trump and Clinton.  Or Sanders and Carson.  Or any of them.  The American two-party system is exclusively about each party maintaining and expanding their own collective wealth and power.  If you think any of these people really give a shit about me, you, or the average Joe, you're an idiot.  In theory, their self-interest should overlap with the common good somewhat.  But I find it less a Venn diagram than a couple of random boobs floating in their own orbit.   

Personally I think it's quite idiotic to think that the governance of, say, Cruz or Sanders would be similar. Just consider how very very different this country would be if Gore had beaten Bush in 2000. I mean, it's staggering to consider, and I'm not saying it would've been better or worse. But with Gore, it's very likely we have no Iraq war, no Patriot Act, no Roberts or Alito on the Supreme Court, we don't have the 2008 financial crisis at nearly the level that we did, and Obama does not become president in 2008.

The differences are staggering, and I can't understand anyone who thinks this way. It's basically the attitude of most Trump supporters who have no idea what's going on, are mad for no real reason, are wrong or misinformed about everything, and aren't interested in learning anything.

The idea that there would have been no Iraq war in a Gore administration is laughable.  It probably would have been better executed, but it still would have happened.  Gore was always a hawk.  See Iraq 1991 and 1998; see Kosovo; and he and Clinton made use of similarly exaggerated intelligence to justify Kosovo to others.  Read Kenneth Pollack to get a sense of just how huge a threat the Clinton team considered Iraq and how certain they also were of Saddam's WMDs.  Not to mention the general thirst for blood after 9/11.  All the main Dems voted for the Iraq Resolution.

And if you are looking for people to pin the 2008 crisis on - try Bob Rubin and Larry Summers championing the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the Clinton Administration's push to expand homeownership through mandating that Fannie and Freddie dedicate a substantial portion of their federal guarantees to "lesser qualified" borrowers and "underserved communities" (aka sub-prime).

Or just keep bleating the tired old "Bush is bad!" shibboleth.

ggw wrote:
The idea that there would have been no Iraq war in a Gore administration is laughable.  It probably would have been better executed, but it still would have happened.  Gore was always a hawk.  See Iraq 1991 and 1998; see Kosovo; and he and Clinton made use of similarly exaggerated intelligence to justify Kosovo to others.  Read Kenneth Pollack to get a sense of just how huge a threat the Clinton team considered Iraq and how certain they also were of Saddam's WMDs.  Not to mention the general thirst for blood after 9/11.  All the main Dems voted for the Iraq Resolution.

Nah, there's no way Gore goes into Iraq the same way or even at all. Iraq was not a top-of-mind threat, and Gore would've been perfectly satisfied with an Afghan war. He would not have tried to fight two wars in two parts of the world. The whole WMD thing was born and raised by Cheney, Bush and co. Read "Days of Fire" by Peter Baker (who is a far more objective observer than Kenneth Pollack, who wrote a book on why the US should go to war with Iraq). Invading Iraq was not an agenda item that any president would've gotten around to. It was created, developed and executed by the Bush administration, period. Saying otherwise is just making up history.

And you're old enough that you shouldn't conveniently forget that after 9/11, anyone who even remotely tried to introduce nuance or thoughtfulness into the national security discussion was totally pilloried. Max Cleland, a war hero paraplegic, was called a traitor for questioning the homeland security movement and got voted out of office.

Yeah, you're right. Deregulation and the fact that the 2008 meltdown occurred in year 7 of the Bush administration are totally irrelevant. "It was Clinton's fault!" say right wing boobs who pick and choose their facts like Sunday morning outfits.

not only is trump a fascist, but he has superhuman vision too!  not only did he see, with his own eyes, people jumping from the twin towers on 9/11 despite living 4 miles away; he also saw muslims celebrating the terrorist attacks in NJ!  amazing!  also, he's good at real estate and knows that boilers are put in the basement.  how can people possibly NOT vote for him?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/politics/donald-trump-september-11-muslims-celebrating/index.html

totally agree with Relaxer.. the reductionist "argument" that all politicians are the same and there is no difference between them doesn't hold water… I'm surprised someone would say this in light of the Bush years debacle…… First of all a Gore administration would have taken the threat seriously and 9-11 might never have happened.. second of all a Gore administration would not have been hijacked by a bunch of neocon wackjobs…

Even if you think the only thing different between Gore and Bush would have been the Supreme Court justices- and I think one has to accept that- the difference between them would have been staggering..and the impact of those appointments lasts for DECADES…

hutch wrote:…… First of all a Gore …and 9-11 might never have happened..

I think the probability is much more likely, but OBL fermented his anger under Clinton lest we not forget

I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.

hutch wrote:
I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod…

azaghal1981 wrote:
I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.

hutch wrote:
I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod…

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

Space wrote:

azaghal1981 wrote:
I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.

hutch wrote:
I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod…

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

ok then speaking honestly and beyond the jokes I don't get your position… is it that there is a disproportionate amount of violent people or ass backwards people in the muslim world? if so, do you have position on what to do about it?

hutch wrote:

Space wrote:

azaghal1981 wrote:
I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.

hutch wrote:
I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod…

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

ok then speaking honestly and beyond the jokes I don't get your position… is it that there is a disproportionate amount of violent people or ass backwards people in the muslim world? if so, do you have position on what to do about it?

I'm sure I could find articles and quotes that better summarize my view than I can. Admittedly, I'm not the best writer, and I'm on a short schedule today with little time for long political discussion…but in a nutshell:

My position is that there are a disproportionate number of conservative, anti-progressive people in the Muslim world…wiith views much more conservative and dangerous than the integrated, more secular Muslims who live her in the US (see http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/) This is due to people with power and money pushing a hardline version of the Koran that is antithetical to life in the Western World.

What is the solution? Working with secular and liberal Muslims and "ex-Muslims" who are still connected to the culture to push Islam toward a more progressive direction, a direction Christianity has already been pushed in Europe and the United States.

Space wrote:
Working with secular and liberal Muslims and "ex-Muslims" who are still connected to the culture to push Islam toward a more progressive direction

I know I'm being very foolish to put my foot in this…but…

I think that Sam Harris, Bill M and even Space have a point that keeps getting shrugged off as being a racist or a bigot.  People tend to quickly respond, but don't really address the issue they are trying to bring up and discuss seriously. (unlike Donald who is not trying to talk seriously about the issue)


I'm extremely liberal and Human Rights, Women's Rights and Freedom to practice your own religion are important to me.

These are things I really stand for and vehemently defend…might even don a army uniform to defend them (total pacifist though…so don't think they'd have me)


But there is a hard line of the Muslim world that believe these things are totally acceptable:
Genital Mutilation
Honor Killings
Forced marriage
Apostasy
People of Religion running courts and making decisions on someone's life on a book that is centauries old
Death penalties for Art or Sexual preference


I don't think you can have it both ways
I don't believe in freedom in religion if the religion holds those things as tenants

That we can happily look at those serious offenses and shrug them off…is being ignorant
and the Politically Correct crowd will not even let us have the converstaion

Trump talkers please forgive me for veering off thread slightly. In regard to Sam Harris, I think this piece sums it up pretty well. It also addresses much more eloquently and longwindedly, the question Hutch asked me.

Note: This is the full version of this interview, not the censored one that appeared in Salon.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-interview