vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:15 PM UTC
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Sorry Mank, but I have to disagree with you.
Two things, you never give the pros an extra out. By eliminating that fan's actions, there would have been two outs. The next pitch was a wild pitch that walked the guy, setting up first and third with one out instead of a runner on second with two outs. That never would have happened.
Next, Gonzo's error. Well, had it been a runner on second and two outs the only play was to first to end the game and that would have done it. He was thinking double play and rushed it and that's why he dropped a gimmee ground ball.
Even if Gonzo drops the ball, Conine's sacrifice is taken out of the picture and it would have been tied at worst.
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen? Once the first guy got on, fine with a two run lead you can let Prior try to get an out (as long as someone is warming up -still no one up with a runner on second), but once there were two on with Pudge at the plate, you HAVE to go to the pen, but he couldn't because nobody was warmed up! Then he had to rush Farnsworth in who wasn't ready and the route is already on!
The fan is an fucking idiot and gets most of the blame but Dusty should get the blame as well for yet another gmae 6 collapse.
ratioci nation
Joined: November 22, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4463
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:23 PM UTC
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The fact is the Cubs gave up 8 runs, I will say the fan is at fault for 1 or 2 runs, but not 8.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:26 PM UTC
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2003 World Series – Yankees & Marlins
yawn…….
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:33 PM UTC
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Anyone think that he will end up like that Colombian football (soccer) goalie?
bags
Joined: October 30, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 8545
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:35 PM UTC
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This man must leave Chicago, now. The Sun may have seen it as a personalized feature, but it's his "Wanted" poster.
Man in stands described as diehard fan
October 15, 2003
BY ANNIE SWEENEY, FRANK MAIN AND CHRIS FUSCO
The man some fans blame for Tuesday night's Cubs loss because he reached out and touched a foul ball that Moises Alou was trying to catch is a diehard Cubs fan who coaches youth baseball in the north suburbs.
Steve Bartman, 26, works at Hewitt Associates, an international consulting firm in Lincolnshire.
"He is an associate at Hewitt, and he is not coming to work today because of the incident," Suzanne Zagata-Meraz, a spokeswoman for Hewitt, said this morning. "That was a decision that Steve and [Human Resources] made together. We have been in contact with Steve."
A man who answered the door at the Northbrook home where friends and a neighbor said Bartman grew up defended him, saying he only did what came naturally when a foul ball came his way.
"He's a huge Cubs fan," said the man, who responded to "Mr. Bartman." "I'm sure I taught him well. I taught him to catch foul balls when they come near him."
He declined to say any more and would not confirm what relation he is to Steve Bartman.
A neighbor, Ron Cohen, said he has known the Bartman family for 20 years. He and others said Bartman was a graduate of the University of Notre Dame who played for and is now a coach for the Renegades, an elite youth baseball club in Niles.
Cohen said he saw Bartman on Sunday and that Bartman told him then that he had tickets to Tuesday's game.
"He felt great he got tickets to the game," said Cohen, 63.
Cohen was watching the game on TV with his son, who grew up with "Stevie," when they recognized the man in the Renegades shirt.
"I really was just surprised," said Cohen, who called Bartman's mother. "I think it's just a natural tendency. Everybody reaches. I'm not trying to defend him, but I think it's just a natural tendency. He may not have seen Alou coming."
He described Bartman as a baseball fanatic.
"He's a good kid, a wonderful son, never in any trouble," Cohen told a Sun-Times reporter. "I don't think he should be blamed at all. People reach for balls. This just happened to be a little more critical. If Florida didn't score all the runs, you wouldn't be standing here."
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:39 PM UTC
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Anyone think that he will end up like that Colombian football (soccer) goalie?
It's not too often I get to correct GGW, but Andres Escobar wasn't a goalie, he was the defender who scored the own goal in the Colombia v US match in 1994.
And no, the gambling syndicate in the US is not like the gambling syndicate in Colombia.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:43 PM UTC
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d'oh……
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:48 PM UTC
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Originally posted by vansmack:
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen? Once the first guy got on, fine with a two run lead you can let Prior try to get an out (as long as someone is warming up -still no one up with a runner on second), but once there were two on with Pudge at the plate, you HAVE to go to the pen, but he couldn't because nobody was warmed up! Then he had to rush Farnsworth in who wasn't ready and the route is already on!
i don't really blame keeping prior in there. . .dusty is now getting blamed for keeping a pitcher in too long. . last year, he took out ortiz too early. if anything, dusty should not have brought farnsworth in, then had him make an intentional walk. any momentum he had warming up is gone.
otherwise, spot on smackie!
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:49 PM UTC
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Originally posted by mankie:
OR…they could've taken the Yankees approach and started pitching to the batters heads!
that's the red sox
Guiny
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:49 PM UTC
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Ok the ball was foul, it wasnt on the playing field, it was on his side of the bleachers. Anyone of us with any kind of athletic ability woulda done the same thing out of instinct. If it was over the bar that they show in the picture then YES it is his fault, but if he lets the ball go and Alou who is not the most talented outfielder doesnt catch it, then the fan gets knocked in the head with the ball. So its not his fault………Of course i'm rooting for the Marlins so i'm happy it happened.
GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bags
Joined: October 30, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 8545
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:50 PM UTC
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Five outs from the World Series, and Florida's Luis Castillo hit a fly ball that went to Cubs left fielder Moises Alou. He drifted over toward the stands and jumped for the ball, but then a young man in the crowd in a dark shirt, Cubs cap and headphones reached over with both hands looking for a souvenir and knocked the ball away.
The play was ruined, and Alou jumped out of control in anger, reportedly yelling an obscenity at the fan. A few minutes later, the man cried while holding a sweater over his face as three security guards escorted him in safety out of the stands.
Later, they gave the man, maybe 25 years old and 5-7, a tan jacket as a disguise so he could leave the stadium safely.
Cubs security wouldn't release the man's name, saying they worried for his safety. But one security guard, asked what the man had told them, said this:
"Just that he was scared to death. He didn't know what happened till it was over. He was wearing the headphones, and he didn't really know.''
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:53 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Ok the ball was foul, it wasnt on the playing field, it was on his side of the bleachers. Anyone of us with any kind of athletic ability woulda done the same thing out of instinct. If it was over the bar that they show in the picture then YES it is his fault, but if he lets the ball go and Alou who is not the most talented outfielder doesnt catch it, then the fan gets knocked in the head with the ball. So its not his fault………Of course i'm rooting for the Marlins so i'm happy it happened.
GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's not true. . .it was over the railing, so, if anything, it would have hit the wall. . .alou said he was 100% sure he was gonna catch the ball.
how in the world can someone root for the marlins??
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:55 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Originally posted by vansmack:
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen?
Do you not remember last year's world series when he pulled Russ Ortiz too early?
I watch it at least once a week on DVD thank you very much (I was also in attendance). And that was the other game 6 collapse I was referring to.
His mistake there wasn't pulling him too early, it was giving away the game ball before he had actually won the game. I don't think it was too early: Glaus and Wooten smoked those first two balls and there were no outs with two on with a five run lead. Just don't give the other team more incentive to beat you.
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man?
October 15, 2003 at 04:55 PM UTC
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Originally posted by mankie:
Clemence got traded to the Redsocks??? When?
I bet it's fun being a Whitesox fan in Chicago today.
clemence? what are you talking about? pedro martinez is the one who throws at peoples heads, and tells people he's gonna throw at peoples heads.
as for being a white sox fan, ask bernie mac, i hear he's a white sox fan.