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Have you seen this man?

sonickteam2
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:31 PM UTC #
Originally posted by vansmack:

AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 ————–Boston——- 114——- NY Yankees —– 7½
[/QB]
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2

(see, i am not a betting man)

what does all that mean?
sonickteam2
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:35 PM UTC #
and of all the mistakes the Red Sox may or may not make, i think a managerial mistake (replacing Walker with Jackson or soemthing) is one of the last ones possible.

Saving Pedro for Game 5 in Oakland
Starting Burkett in Game 4 in Oakland
Pitching Lowe in the 9th in Game 5 in Oakland
Pinch-Hitting Varitek in Game 4 in Boston (ALCS)
Saving Pedro until tonight.
Starting Wakefield in Game 4.

a lot of decisions he made, all (except saving Pedro for tonight) have worked out brilliantly so far.
I'll trust Little from now on.

my prediction, two words….Gabe Kapler. just wait.
mankie
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:38 PM UTC #
Real men play EVERY game!
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:45 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
my prediction, two words….Gabe Kapler. just wait.
What does Mr. Kotter have to do with baseball?

<img src="http://www.pmpnetwork.com/gabe_kaplan/cast.jpg" alt=" - " />
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:47 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by vansmack:

AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 ————–Boston——- 114——- NY Yankees —– 7½
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2

(see, i am not a betting man)

what does all that mean? [/QB]
You're a very slight favorite. You have to bet $114 to win $100.

IF you take the Yankees, you wager $100 to win $114.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:51 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by vansmack:

AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 ————–Boston——- 114——- NY Yankees —– 7½
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2

(see, i am not a betting man)

what does all that mean? [/QB]
And 7 1/2 is the over/under on the total runs scored. If you bet the under, you think that the total runs scored will be 7 or less and if you take the over you think the total runs scored will be 8 or more.
sonickteam2
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 04:53 PM UTC #
thanks.

I'd take the Sox and/or the over, definitely.

:D
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 05:02 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and of all the mistakes the Red Sox may or may not make, i think a managerial mistake (replacing Walker with Jackson or soemthing) is one of the last ones possible.

Saving Pedro for Game 5 in Oakland
Starting Burkett in Game 4 in Oakland
Pitching Lowe in the 9th in Game 5 in Oakland
Pinch-Hitting Varitek in Game 4 in Boston (ALCS)
Saving Pedro until tonight.
Starting Wakefield in Game 4.

a lot of decisions he made, all (except saving Pedro for tonight) have worked out brilliantly so far.
I'll trust Little from now on.

my prediction, two words….Gabe Kapler. just wait.
This is what I love about Sox fans. I said nothing of a mistake by Little. I didn't say that bringing in Jackson was the wrong move, you assumed it. I was just saying what was going to happen without putting blame on any decisions Little makes. Trust him do you?

I don't like Little. I've disagreed with many of his decisions in this series, but you're absolutely right about his starting pitching decisions. But he has time to think about those decisions. You didn't mention any decisions he made in the field, on offense and only one pitiching change.

It's his decisions when he doesn't have time to think about it that bother me. He hasn't laid down a bunt yet, but he has hit into 3 strike out double plays! This is the playoffs and you have to manage differently in the playoffs. Every run counts and pitching wins, not slugging percentage.
sonickteam2
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 06:01 PM UTC #
well, i just think that a change in the lineup mid-game, causing disaster, would be his fault. If what you say were to happen, i would be pissed at him.
We dont ever bunt, ever. It doesnt help the slugging percentage. We arent that fast either.

The Boston Red Sox dont play small ball and therefore leave little offensive decisions for Little to make.

The only relief pitcher i have seen blow things, is Kim and perhaps Williamson ALMOST blew it one time. But other than that, a you can call those strike out - throw out things the only bad calls, i believe.

You dont take a team with the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball and tell them to bunt!?
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 06:29 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
well, i just think that a change in the lineup mid-game, causing disaster, would be his fault. If what you say were to happen, i would be pissed at him.
We dont ever bunt, ever. It doesnt help the slugging percentage. We arent that fast either.

The Boston Red Sox dont play small ball and therefore leave little offensive decisions for Little to make.

The only relief pitcher i have seen blow things, is Kim and perhaps Williamson ALMOST blew it one time. But other than that, a you can call those strike out - throw out things the only bad calls, i believe.

You dont take a team with the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball and tell them to bunt!?
I would make the defensive change if Jackson were the better defender. That's smart baseball.

If Scioscia didn't ask Glaus, Salmon, Anderson, Spezio and Erstad to bunt, then they're not the World Champions. Of course, maybe they're not in the record books for having the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball, but how many Red Sox fans and players would trade that record for a World Series title?

You bunt when the play dictates it. Small ball is a style of play that does not suit the Sox, but bunting is not always small ball - it's also smart ball. It doesn't take speed to bunt a runner over - if anything you bunt and run because you don't have speed. Why does he wait until two strikes for every hit and run? It's harder to turn a double play 4-6-3 or 5-4-3 than is to catch a slow guy stealing on a hit and run with 2 strikes.

How about having the second baseman cover second with a left handed batter and a finesse pitcher? I could smell hit and run from San Francisco yet Walker covers second? The double play ball goes right through the hole you created on the right side for a left handed batter. He's done that twice, both times resulting in a rally for the Yankees.

How many times does Matsui have to drop a flare hit before you stop playing the outfield deep against him? Put them at regular depth - you're gaurding against a double with a guy who's going to get a double anyway. You have a better shot at getting him going for three than you do going for two anyway.

He's done a hell of a job with the Pen though so you're right on there. They are finally hitting their groove and now is the right time.

It's the little things (and I mean a little luck too) that are keeping you and the Cubs from winning World Series titles. The talent is there, niether team just acts like they believe and both are ready to make excuses and put blame elsewhere for everything.

It's not the Yankees because they're beatable. That's the same team that the Angels embarrassed last year. Are Matsui and Contreras making the difference? No way. Take chances on the basepaths, not in the field. Move runners over to get them in with the high slugging percentage, don't wait for two singles to score runs. And believe you can win right up until the last out because this Yankee bullpen is old and tired. And get in Roger's head because he beats himself more than any hall of fame pitcher in baseball. Get him fired up and he will overthrow.

I just don't think the Sox take this approach (although hearing Grady said to turn the music on in the locker room after game 5 was good to hear). They don't make me believe that they can win (mostly because of decisions and execution and some attitude). I hope they do though because I hate the Yankees with every bone in my body. But only a fool would bet on the Sox as the favorites tonight - it's not a wise bet.
sonickteam2
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 06:39 PM UTC #
You have very wise points and i agree with the fact that they have left WAY too many men on base and had way too many men thrown out on the basepaths.

Do they believe they can win? course not. not yesterday anyway. Do they believe they can win now? i dont know, but if they do, they will.

I lived in Boston in 1986 and i was 9 when those fuckers lost the Series (i know it was the Mets not the Yankees) but i cried for days!! (as 9 year olds do) and i remember it well, like it was last year.

I guess we'll see tonight. If i can even bear to watch.
mankie
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 06:43 PM UTC #
Originally posted by vansmack:
I would make the defensive change if Jackson were the better defender. That's smart baseball.

If Scioscia didn't ask Glaus, Salmon, Anderson, Spezio and Erstad to bunt, then they're not the World Champions. Of course, maybe they're not in the record books for having the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball, but how many Red Sox fans and players would trade that record for a World Series title?

You bunt when the play dictates it. Small ball is a style of play that does not suit the Sox, but bunting is not always small ball - it's also smart ball. It doesn't take speed to bunt a runner over - if anything you bunt and run because you don't have speed. Why does he wait until two strikes for every hit and run? It's harder to turn a double play 4-6-3 or 5-4-3 than is to catch a slow guy stealing on a hit and run with 2 strikes.

How about having the second baseman cover second with a left handed batter and a finesse pitcher? I could smell hit and run from San Francisco yet Walker covers second? The double play ball goes right through the hole you created on the right side for a left handed batter. He's done that twice, both times resulting in a rally for the Yankees.

How many times does Matsui have to drop a flare hit before you stop playing the outfield deep against him? Put them at regular depth - you're gaurding against a double with a guy who's going to get a double anyway. You have a better shot at getting him going for three than you do going for two anyway.

He's done a hell of a job with the Pen though so you're right on there. They are finally hitting their groove and now is the right time.

It's the little things (and I mean a little luck too) that are keeping you and the Cubs from winning World Series titles. The talent is there, niether team just acts like they believe and both are ready to make excuses and put blame elsewhere for everything.

It's not the Yankees because they're beatable. That's the same team that the Angels embarrassed last year. Are Matsui and Contreras making the difference? No way. Take chances on the basepaths, not in the field. Move runners over to get them in with the high slugging percentage, don't wait for two singles to score runs. And believe you can win right up until the last out because this Yankee bullpen is old and tired. And get in Roger's head because he beats himself more than any hall of fame pitcher in baseball. Get him fired up and he will overthrow.

I just don't think the Sox take this approach (although hearing Grady said to turn the music on in the locker room after game 5 was good to hear). They don't make me believe that they can win (mostly because of decisions and execution and some attitude). I hope they do though because I hate the Yankees with every bone in my body. But only a fool would bet on the Sox as the favorites tonight - it's not a wise bet.
I freely admit that I don't understand the game of baseball….but after reading that I'm not sure I understand the English language!
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 06:54 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
You have very wise points and i agree with the fact that they have left WAY too many men on base and had way too many men thrown out on the basepaths.

Do they believe they can win? course not. not yesterday anyway. Do they believe they can win now? i dont know, but if they do, they will.

I lived in Boston in 1986 and i was 9 when those fuckers lost the Series (i know it was the Mets not the Yankees) but i cried for days!! (as 9 year olds do) and i remember it well, like it was last year.

I guess we'll see tonight. If i can even bear to watch.
I was 12 in 86 and was in attendance for the "Donnie Moore" game (for lack of a better title). Hendu crushed me. I cried for days and I cried again when Donnie killed himself a few years later. I was convinced that the Angels too were cursed after blowing 79, 82, 89 and then the 15 game lead in 95. I am also a Pirates fan and sat through 90, 91, and the infamous Francisco Cabrera game in 92. I know pain.

But my faith was restored last year with something I never would have guessed in the era of the juiced ball. Simple smart situational baseball. And age doesn't matter because I cried as much when we won as I did when we lost. I creid the most when we beat the Yankees.

It's what's been working for the Marlins. I haven't for one second thought that team didn't believe they could beat the Giants or the Cubs.

I don't get that feeling with the Sox (except Grady's starting pitching choices which cleary show he's been managing for a 7 game series from the start). I just don't trust him, given what I've seen in the first six, that he can do enough to win game 7. I think he's relying too much on the aura of the Pedro of old. He's not the same pitcher. Grady's going to have to manage a helluva game tonight for the Sox to win.

Oh and you'll watch every gut wrenching pitch from start to finish. All true baseball fans will as this is a matchup we'll be able tell our kids about with all of the storylines.

Good luck. I'm rooting for you and all Sox fans out there. Like I said when the playoffs started, you'd have to be a heartless twat to be rooting for the Yankees tonight.
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 08:59 PM UTC #
spot on again smackie. . .the lack of bunting in this playoffs is moderatly frustrating. of all the teams that successfully pulled it off the best, it would be the a's. side note about that: gm billy beane apparently yelled at art howe last year when he bunted in a regular season game, telling art howe that the a's weren't built to bunt- look where that got them. while the sox have the highest slugging percentage in history, there comes a time when a bunt would be the ideal play, as opposed to swinging for the fences everytime. same with the hit and run. not enough teams do either of those plays well enough. but, if you can get by winning 12-10 games, then go ahead.

after watching that game last night, it was clear that the cubs just didn't want to win that, err, the marlins wanted to win it more. my friend has been saying since the middle of september that the cubs seemed to not want to win, but just put in enough effort.

i've only been to 2 post season games (1987 giants/cardinals, the jeffrey leonard "one flap down" series- and game 3 of the cubs/braves where mark prior threw that 2 hitter). . .but i've seen enough post season games, but have never broke down, generally because they've never been in those close, tragic games. having said that, i did have to console my g/f after last night.
ratioci nation
Joined: November 22, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4463
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 09:16 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
the jeffrey leonard "one flap down" series
I still think he is a bastard
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man? October 16, 2003 at 09:19 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ratioci nation:
I still think he is a bastard
oh, come on. . it was great watching him show up all those cardinals pitchers. . .plus, how many people win the nlcs mvp award, but played on the losing team, but it figures that it would be the same season that andre dawson won his mvp award.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: Have you seen this man? October 17, 2003 at 04:52 AM UTC #
Originally posted by vansmack:

But you're right, the fall I'm talking about is blowing the big lead
I'm so sorry sonick, I really feel for you and the rest of my Boston friends right now.

Originally posted by vansmack:
I'm thinking the Sox will light up the Rocket, who might actually get tossed at some point when he hits somebody and Pedro cruises for a while after hitting the first batter he faces.
CHECK Well he didn't get tossed, but the Sox were all over him. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Originally posted by vansmack:
The Sox have a two run lead, Grady brings in Jackson for the defensive replacement in the eighth, he makes the error in the ninth and the next batter hits a two run homerun to tie it.
It was three run lead in the eighth so I was close. He surprisingly left Walker in and I think it was the right move. Jackson pinch run and that's it.


Originally posted by vansmack:
The stories start spinning. Then the Sox get a couple runners on and two outs in the 11th, Jackson bats where MVP Todd Walker should have been batting, he strikes out and a Yankee hits a walk-off home run the bottom half of the inning.
CHECK The Sox never threatened in the 11th, but did Smackie actually predict a walkoff homerun in the 11th for the Yankee win? I'm telling you guys, I don't make this stuff up. My Jedi powers serve me well. And I made fortune this week.

Originally posted by vansmack:

And the cities of Boston and Chicago take the rest of the week off to recover.
For all the hype, we get a Florida-Yankee World Series. Yawn….Yippee…..Yawn. There's always next year, but man it just ain't right. The Sox were agresssive on the base paths from the start, they executed hit and runs well and did everything they needed to defensively to win that game.

I'm not in the mood to go in depth into Grady believing too much into the aura of Pedro circa 99-2000, but my rule of thumb is 100+ pitches with a man at the plate who could tie the game, it's time to go to the pen. And by tomorrow morning, I won't be the only one saying that.
mankie
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 17, 2003 at 01:46 PM UTC #
Marlins V Yankees…..I guess I won't be the only one NOT watching the world series! :D
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Have you seen this man? October 17, 2003 at 02:06 PM UTC #
watching that game last night was like deja vu all over again. i know i've seen a game just like that before, oh wait, i know. . .manager won't take out the tiring starter while they have the lead, and the starter gives up the lead, then lose the game. where did i watch that?
mankie
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Re: Have you seen this man? October 17, 2003 at 02:17 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
watching that game last night was like deja vu all over again. i know i've seen a game just like that before, oh wait, i know. . .manager won't take out the tiring starter while they have the lead, and the starter gives up the lead, then lose the game. where did i watch that?
Wasn't that Bull Durham?

No, wait….A league of their own.
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