bunnyman
Joined: November 19, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5542
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:07 PM UTC
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Punk rock changed my life…but then again, to some people if it's not the Old 97's or some alt-country thing, it's shite. Not that I care, because I don't care much for that attitude anyway. Punk rock MAJORLY altered popular music in the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. It may have been a trickle-down effect in a lot of cases, but it's there, in everything from Blondie and the Go-Go's to Green Day and Nirvana.
For my own pick, I would say the 3 I would choose EASILY are the Stooges, Patti Smith and Grandmaster Flash. Fourth would be the Pretenders. You have to give credit where credit is due…the Stooges put out three of the best rock'n'roll records of all time. The Sex Pistols, though influential, also did as much damage as they did good. Nobody wanted to touch punk rock after the Pistols. Bands like the Ramones were pretty much destined to commercial failure because the image was too risky to record labels. That's why people started signing up all the new wave bands because it was watered down punk and it was more palatable to the consumer.
That being said, punk rock is class music like the blues or country. It was meant to be about rebellion, and it was inspired by people who were beaten down and tired of it. Their expression was through music, and there is an honesty in that type of music because it's inspired by what is real. Not all punk is sophisticated (let's face it, people like the Ramones were NOT society's elite), but there was still something that fueled their songs…and over time it became more focused, more angry. Put on any early Black Flag, Minor Threat, or go back to the Stooges. You have a revolution in those records. The Stooges are the real deal…they belong in the Hall of Fame to give it some legitimacy.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:07 PM UTC
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How about Gram Parsons?
He played maybe four seasons - as a blocking fullback and special teams player - and gained about 417 yards over that career.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Does a football player have one 2000 yard season, then blow out his knee and retire, and get rewarded hall of fame status?
Venerable Bede
Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3863
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:12 PM UTC
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
i think you are arguing with no one really.
yeah, that's true. . .but my bronchitis has made me cranky and combative today. waiting for the doctor to (hopefully) give me something to help me. perhaps herr doom could give me some of whatever he's been smoking. :)
kosmo
Joined: September 23, 1999 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 16329
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:16 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Sex Pistols=one great, important record. But definitely not hall of fame material.
one record yes, thats whats when the band breaks up. but i think the legend of the pistols would have been damaged by future records. plus at the time plenty of drugs, alcohol and death had the band in pretty poor shape to do a follow up. plus rotton was already to move on to different things with PIL
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:18 PM UTC
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Ok, I guess that means Mark "The Bird" Fidrych and Rick Ankiel both belong the the baseball hall of fame, no?
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Sex Pistols=one great, important record. But definitely not hall of fame material.
one record yes, thats whats when the band breaks up. but i think the legend of the pistols would have been damaged by future records. plus at the time plenty of drugs, alcohol and death had the band in pretty poor shape to do a follow up. plus rotton was already to move on to different things with PIL
thirsty moore
Joined: January 11, 2000 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 6131
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:19 PM UTC
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For his wacky antics at least.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Ok, I guess that means Mark "The Bird" Fidrych … belong the the baseball hall of fame, no?
skeeter
Joined: May 29, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4011
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:23 PM UTC
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And there's of course the annual question:
What do [insert nominated artists here] have to do with Rock 'n' Roll? In this case, I'll put up Grand Master Flash and Conway Twitty.
I can readily understand why some blues and country artists are in there. They directly influenced the progression of rock and roll. There's no doubt that GMF was a monstrous force in the development of rap, hip-hop and popular music in general - but rock and roll? Same for Conway. An absolute top-notch country artist, worth of every bit of country praise I could think of. But did he have any influence at all in rock and roll?
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:26 PM UTC
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So do you think Buddly Holly doesn't deserve to be in the hall? Based on this argument you don't. Comparing the RnR hall to football or baseball is silly.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't think the Sex Pistols should be in the rock and roll hame of fame.
They put out one album, right?
Does a baseball player make the baseball hall of fame for having one 20 game winning season or winning one batting title, and following it up with mediocrity or nothing at all?
Does a football player have one 2000 yard season, then blow out his knee and retire, and get rewarded hall of fame status?
Sex Pistols=one great, important record. But definitely not hall of fame material.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:30 PM UTC
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Conway actually started as a rock and roll artist on Sun Records, and wrote the Elvis smash "It's Only Make Believe". But you're right, his rock contributions weren't really that significant.
Except my mom got the see one of his rock shows back in the 50's and meet him after the show.
Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
And there's of course the annual question:
What do [insert nominated artists here] have to do with Rock 'n' Roll? In this case, I'll put up Grand Master Flash and Conway Twitty.
I can readily understand why some blues and country artists are in there. They directly influenced the progression of rock and roll. There's no doubt that GMF was a monstrous force in the development of rap, hip-hop and popular music in general - but rock and roll? Same for Conway. An absolute top-notch country artist, worth of every bit of country praise I could think of. But did he have any influence at all in rock and roll?
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:38 PM UTC
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by chaz:
So do you think Buddly Holly doesn't deserve to be in the hall?
if he hadnt died in a plane crash, he probably wouldnt be.
oh, that was Buddy Holly, not Buddly. sorry.
Sonick yer such a such a spelling cop…
And you may be right about about the crash, although I'd still put Holly in, but not Richie Valens (I may have spelled that first name wrong…sorry officer, but there are a few ways to spell Richie..)
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:42 PM UTC
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But can't we all agree that Centerfold and Freezeframe were oh so much catchier than the earlier stuff?
Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by chaz:
And how the hell did J Geils band get on this list?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to defend J Geils since I really don't like anything they've ever done, but…the reason they are on here is that they really are much more than their Frrezeframe & "Centerfold" output. They'd been making bluesy rock records since the early 70's - most to pretty positive critical acclaim. Then they sold their soul to MTV in the early 80's.
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:47 PM UTC
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I heard "Centerfold" out at Fed-Ex field the other week and thought to myself "Self, this music sure beats the shit out of anything I've heard on HFS lately…ahh yes those were the good old days. The Greasman, Billy Squire and J. Geils band."
I like J Geils…though I'm not familiar with anything he ever did other than the songs you mentioned. His name just sounded so random on the list of canditates. Billy Squire….now THERE'S a guy who belongs in the hall! Stroke me, Stoke me! Stroke! Stroke! Pure genius!
Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by chaz:
And how the hell did J Geils band get on this list?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to defend J Geils since I really don't like anything they've ever done, but…the reason they are on here is that they really are much more than their Frrezeframe & "Centerfold" output. They'd been making bluesy rock records since the early 70's - most to pretty positive critical acclaim. Then they sold their soul to MTV in the early 80's.
skeeter
Joined: May 29, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4011
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 06:47 PM UTC
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The J. Geils Band was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. The "Freeze-Frame" era doesn't really represent them well at all. They're more of an r&b-based rock band - sort of like the stuff The Blues Brothers are known for.
Still, they wouldn't be my first choice of artists to nominate.
kosmo
Joined: September 23, 1999 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 16329
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 07:24 PM UTC
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hitman
Joined: September 23, 2002 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 632
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 08:21 PM UTC
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Does a baseball player make the baseball hall of fame for having one 20 game winning season or winning one batting title, and following it up with mediocrity or nothing at all?
well, don sutton only had 1 20 win season and he's in the hall of fame.
But Sutton has 324 career wins. There's something to be said of career longevity.
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 08:27 PM UTC
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WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT DONT SUTTON.
dont we have a baseball thread already?
I'll go get it.
dotdot
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Rock Hall of Fame Finalists
September 13, 2004 at 08:47 PM UTC
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I'm sick of all the sport bullshit on these pages. Rhett, punk was very important. True, it's irrelevant now, but whether or not the Pistols were first or not or how many records they put out, etc., shouldn't disqualify them. And baseball's rules have nothing to do with music, so you can't compare the two.
However, I do agree that Gram Parsons should definitely be in, as well as the Stooges… the rest of the choices are questionable. I love Patti and like the Pistols, but "Metal Box" was much better than "Bollocks." The J. Geils Band? Give me a fucking break! And I like Grandmaster Flash, but don't know if he deserves the nod…
So, Gram and Iggy, those are my choices.
And I know a few people who love Randy Newman, so he'll probably make it, as will Skynyrd, even though they annoy the shit out of me.
