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Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore

elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 06:41 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
What's most appalling is people eat this crap up. People like Sweetcell who live nowhere near Montgomery County – and therefore have no reason to be concerned about how MoCo spends their revenue – are writing emails in deference to the project at the prodding of you folks. What a bunch of fans boys.
julian, it's refreshing to know you don't hold yourself up to the same standards you expect of others:
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
since when is Richmond part of MoCo? !? i spend the week in DC and regularly attend shows around the region, so i do have an opinion to share. and FYI, i clearly identified myself in my e-mail as not being a taxpayer of MoCo.
If anything, you're highlighting my point. Shadrach discredits me earlier because "I'm not a MoCo resident" when he said…

Originally posted by Shadrach:
You are clearly not a Montgomery Co. resident or this insane amount of tax payer money going to line the pockets of a company that is ALREADY a nationwide monopoly would piss you off to no end.
…but when Mr. Princeton writes an email in support of his vested interest, there's no demanding only email from MoCo residents then.

And for the record, in my email, I also said in the second sentence that I was not a MoCo resident and it'd be inappropriate for me to comment on the partial public financing angle of the proposition.

I can, however, see how MoCo officials have probably seen the "tourism" dollars spent by people such as myself and yourself to stay in hotels, eat at restaurants, and go shopping before and after shows at 9:30 Club and decided they could get a piece of that as an economic boon to their county and that the potential increase in "tourism" would offset their costs over time. People are acting like Live Nation showed up in MoCo, said "Hey, we're going to build a terrible venue with bad sound who hates their customers and treats them like crap, so please give us money for this FOR NO GOOD REASON," and they Leggett or whoever went, "uh, ok."
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 06:49 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
and last time i checked 930 concert prices and merrieweather aren't chopped liver..

in fact they are by far on the high end..so we do need competition.
This is another point that everyone seems to want to ignore. Seth has said on here that if the evil Fillmore comes in and promoters have to "bid" against each other for shows, prices will go through the roof.

I find that really hard to stomach. I attend shows and check venue websites in DC, Richmond, Norfolk, Baltimore, and Philadelphia with some regularity. Since, until recently, my own town didn't have legitimate music venues, I often traveled to shows, and my decisions where to attend a tour was usually predicated on (a) what day of the week it hit each city, and (b) how much it cost.

While I have no charts or statistical analysis, I can say without reservation that if there was ever any price disparity in excess of a dollar or three on a tour, it was 99.9% of the time with 9:30 Club being more expensive. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a tour hit three of those cities only to be $15 in two of them and $20 in DC. Incidentally, DC is the only of those 5 where the 1000-2000 person market has only one choice. I've never noticed it at Merriweather, though.

But Seth is probably right, and tickets will double if people have more entertainment opportunities fighting for their precious dollars. No doubt.
Sir HC
Joined: August 31, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4059
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 06:49 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
i agree with julian..

now that live nation wants to build the fillmore suddenly IMP has a problem? why haven't THEY built a mid size venue.. i've written emails to dc city council members and they want a mid size venue.. BUILD THE FUCXXING VENUE .. instead we get shows at DAR which is not a concert venue..

there would be some credibility to IMPs position if they had tried to build the mid size venue before live nation did but they did not.. now that they see they might have a competitor they dont like it

we all know the 930 club is too small for too many bands.. dc needs a bigger venue for a lot of these bands.. why is IMP not building it and instead trying to torpedo someone else trying to build it?

for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)…you do the math
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 06:56 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
i agree with julian..

now that live nation wants to build the fillmore suddenly IMP has a problem? why haven't THEY built a mid size venue.. i've written emails to dc city council members and they want a mid size venue.. BUILD THE FUCXXING VENUE .. instead we get shows at DAR which is not a concert venue..

there would be some credibility to IMPs position if they had tried to build the mid size venue before live nation did but they did not.. now that they see they might have a competitor they dont like it

we all know the 930 club is too small for too many bands.. dc needs a bigger venue for a lot of these bands.. why is IMP not building it and instead trying to torpedo someone else trying to build it?

for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)…you do the math
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner.
how can it not be viable? 930 club is selling out an overwhelming percentage of shows.. we all see this! they are leaving a lot of money on the table.. its too small or the acts that are playing it… when a venue is selling out such a high percentage of shows and when they are being forced to rent another venue (dar) for a bunch of them (ween, mmj, wilco, kings of leon, etc.) its clear that they need a bigger venue

you have to make an investment of course..that requires some up front capital i suppose

i also suppose that in 1995 people thought there was no way dc could support the 930 club in the location it went up.. it didn't sell out that often at the beginning.. i remember.. i was here…

moreover imp argues that it would built the concert venue in silver spring without resorting to tax dollars right? so the market , unless i'm on crack, is there! they have admitted that they would do what live nation is doing without "subsidies" (of sorts).. so why don't they do it???

I'm sorry.. IMPs position makes no sense and i think it amounts to not wanting to let live nation into the market…i hate live nation as much as the next guy but i also don't care for the high priced tickets IMP is charging or $5 buds at the 930…

bottom line: IMP should build the mid size venue to serve the dc market.. they have profited most handsomely from the dc market and we need this so lets plow some of that money accruing from the 930 club into the midsize venue we need.. renting DAR is a lame solution that shortchanges the citizens of DC… that is not a good concert venue and should not be accepted as such.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 06:56 PM UTC #
none of this is going to matter when great depression #2 hits. you're not going to be able to charge your $70 oasis tickets or $125 mbv t-shirts when you have no credit.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:04 PM UTC #
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hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:06 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
[qb] i agree with julian..
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner.
the black cat?? they live in fantasy land where credit cards don't exist.. when was the last time you went to a bar that didnt take credit cards??

dante is not interested in having his venue be any different than it is and has no ambition whatsoever to build a midsize venue..

i think we all know this.
azaghal1981
Joined: June 17, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 12035
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:12 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
[qb] i agree with julian..
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner.
the black cat?? they live in fantasy land where credit cards don't exist.. when was the last time you went to a bar that didnt take credit cards??

dante is not interested in having his venue be any different than it is and has no ambition whatsoever to build a midsize venue..

i think we all know this.
Dante's a financial psychic and saw the huge credit crunch coming before anyone else. :D
Relaxer
Joined: October 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5410
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:18 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
how can it not be viable? 930 club is selling out an overwhelming percentage of shows.. we all see this!
Most 9:30 shows do not sell out. It's easy to think so because the high-profile bands that we discuss/bitch about here do often sell out. But just because Nick Cave and Vampire Weekend sell out, doesn't mean that Chromeo and Yelle will. In fact, only seven out of 50+ shows currently listed are sold out.
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:18 PM UTC #
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
so what youre saying is that if seth wore $500 shoes and watched the hill that julian would be with him?
I would follow him to the ends of the earth in our matching Bruno Maglis.
Relaxer
Joined: October 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5410
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:20 PM UTC #
Not even OJ would wear those ugly-ass shoes
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:22 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Relaxer:
Not even OJ would wear those ugly-ass shoes
Now this is a really unfair complaint. Simply because a particular loafer style was ugly does not make the entire line of an elite Italian shoemaker "ugly-ass" some 15 years later. Maglis are, by and large, a more sophisticated, comfortable version of Ferragamo.
kosmo
Joined: September 23, 1999 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 16329
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:23 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:

for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)…you do the math
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also?
elj
Joined: October 09, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5970
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:26 PM UTC #
Originally posted by kosmo:
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also?
We'd sure be able to test that theory out if they had any other reasonable club option whatsoever to play in the metro DC area.
mdh9857
Joined: August 07, 2006 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 559
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:30 PM UTC #
I just hate the idea that it is in Silver Spring. Who wants to go there over going to DC? We could definitely use something else.

Btw, I never went but what was the capacity of Nation? Something in another area of dc could work.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:36 PM UTC #
Originally posted by kosmo:
Originally posted by hutch:

for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)…you do the math
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also?
maybe wilco is not the best example..and i have no doubt bands/artists love playing the 930 club..its a wonderful place.. but there is a reason wilco has played DAR.. the 930 is too small for a band with wilco's following.

but you seize on one small thing i say.. the general point holds: DC has outgrown the 930 club.. the market is too big for it.. there is a need for a bigger venue.. IMP knows this or they wouldn't have to rent DAR!

in any case: if IMP does not want to build the bigger venue then someone else will and for IMP to stand in the way of that is just protecting its own economic interest..nothing else.. its easy to say Live Nation's proposed Fillmore is an abomination because it takes advantage of what it has been offered by the Silver Spring area politicians.. but the bottom line is: if IMP thinks its so bad why hasn't it done it the right way?
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:42 PM UTC #
Originally posted by mdh9857:
I just hate the idea that it is in Silver Spring. Who wants to go there over going to DC? We could definitely use something else.

Btw, I never went but what was the capacity of Nation? Something in another area of dc could work.
I agree! This is precisely why I wrote a couple of council members here in DC.. they said they are interested in a midsize venue.. It just requires an investment..somebody has to stop in and put up the money.. I don't know why IMP doesn't do it…They must have their reasons but I don't see it…

This is what I wrote October 2007..nothing has happened since then..this was sent to Jim Graham and Jack Evans:


Greetings,

I am a DC resident since 1993. I have been living in the ward you
represent since 2002.

It has become painfully obvious that Washington DC is in dire need of
a miscale music venue. Currently either you have a show at the 930
club (capacity 1000 give or take) or you are talking
Verizon/MCI/Sponsor of the year Center. Constitution Hall is not a
music venue. There are serious problems with sound there and it is not
structured to be a music venue. Many people just avoid the place
rather than be hassled about having to stay seated in seat, bars
closing 20 minutes after show starts (all this happened to me last
week by the way), etc. The Warner Theatre as great as it is cannot be
properly called a music venue. Meanwhile, DC residents - many like
myself without a car- have to trek out to the Patriot Center and many
bands are currently not playing in DC rather stopping by at Rams Head
Baltimore. This is a new development by the way: we used to get
everyone to stop in DC but that is no longer the case! Merriweather is
not a DC venue!

Meanwhile, we hear that Seth Hurwitz is against the House of Blues and
that some people even within the City Council are against the House of
Blues because it would be detrimental to DC venues (Washington Post
November 2006). Now I don't care who owns the place but we
need a bigger venue dedicated to music within DC city limits. This is
such a slam dunk commercially I just don't understand what the holdup
is! If Mr. Hurwitz is against someone else doing it let him do it! His
930 club is so unbelievably extremely profitable I just cannot
understand why he does not take the initiative himself. We know the
930 club is too small which is why more than half of 930 shows are
selling out and often times bands will play two shows in one night or
do three or four night stands. Many bands are too popular to do this
and are increasingly avoiding Washington DC because we do not have the
right sized venue. Furthermore, scalpers are purchasing a lot of the
tickets and reselling them on sites such ebay. One thousand tickets is
not that much and it allows scalpers to have a field day and exert
market power.

So I ask you: what is going on with DC not having a mis-scale
dedicated music venue. I cannot fathom why we do not have a place with
2500-4000 capacity in DC. Are we really against someone like the House
of Blues investing some money in our city? I have been attending
concert events in this town for a long time.

best regards,
xneverwherex
Joined: September 27, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 2109
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:47 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Originally posted by hutch:
and last time i checked 930 concert prices and merrieweather aren't chopped liver..

in fact they are by far on the high end..so we do need competition.
I find that really hard to stomach. I attend shows and check venue websites in DC, Richmond, Norfolk, Baltimore, and Philadelphia with some regularity. Since, until recently, my own town didn't have legitimate music venues, I often traveled to shows, and my decisions where to attend a tour was usually predicated on (a) what day of the week it hit each city, and (b) how much it cost.

While I have no charts or statistical analysis, I can say without reservation that if there was ever any price disparity in excess of a dollar or three on a tour, it was 99.9% of the time with 9:30 Club being more expensive. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a tour hit three of those cities only to be $15 in two of them and $20 in DC. Incidentally, DC is the only of those 5 where the 1000-2000 person market has only one choice. I've never noticed it at Merriweather, though.

I would just like to know which concerts youre comparing to each other. Because hands down - unless youve been to every single venue in every single city you mention (no offense, but i HIGHLY doubt thats the case), the venues dont even compare in size/capacity.

heres my own example - i saw the dandy warhols in NYC (Terminal 5 - owned by bowery presents - NYC has STEEP competition) - $25 , Phila (TLA) onwed by The Fillmore/live nation - $18-20?? or so and at 9:30 Club (IMP) - $25. so by your logic DC is screwing me because I could have seen the dandys for cheaper elsewhere.

but your logic is flawed. these venues arent even equal in size. terminal 5 is the biggest - and the dandys getting $25 is about right. TLA - much smaller (1/2 the size of Terminal 5) and easily smaller than 9:30, so clearly their club would be a bit cheaper. and at 9:30 club - maybe it should have been $22 as its not as big, but i couldnt complain.
sweetcell
Joined: July 18, 2006 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 22608
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:50 PM UTC #
Originally posted by hutch:
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there..
the problem is that if a mid-sized venue was built in SS, the economics of building a similar venue in DC *really* wouldn't work. i doubt this market could support two such venue, so if they build the SS venue, get used to taking the red line all the way up there for mid-sized shows. guess it would still be better than patriot center…
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Got a Live Nation email regarding Silver Spring Fillmore October 01, 2008 at 07:51 PM UTC #
technically, wouldnt the smaller venue be more expensive?
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