Originally posted by Celestial Balls:This discussion began about teenagers and their physical versus emotional development, hence I thought that's what balls was talking about… There was no visible seque to the general responsibility or not of adults, so my responses were about teenagers (and young adults) in line with the discussion. Again, balls and I were talking past each other…
Originally posted by Bags:trouble is, it's not just 22 year olds…it's 28 year olds, 30 year olds, 36 year olds…not sure who's "barely making it" of the ilk we're talking about here…
How does a 22-year old lead an "other-centered" life while trying to start out, first job, first apt, barely making it…
why are american's so repressed?
Originally posted by Venerable Balls:I don't know that mine were, totally. In some ways yes, in some ways no way (especially Dad)
At my age, my parents had been married for 15 years, and had had a kid for 9 years. Surely, they were more emotionally developed at 36 than I am.
Originally posted by mark e smith:Right. The Baby Boomers are willing to coddle their 20-somethings and pay for their whims, while their own parents likely said, "get the fuck out and earn your own keep."
If you have kids you are forced into maturity, there is little option. But defering that probably has a lot to do with the different opportunites you had in life than your parents did.
Originally posted by Celestial Balls:I bet your kids will be making their own t-shirt designs.
I think porn (or television of any kind) in a moving vehicle on the road is probably a bad idea, though. Why can't the rich brats just color, read a book or play a game?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
If you want a 'higher education' then pay for the bastard yourself.
In a more technological world people are attaining higher levels of education, someone has to pay for that education.
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by mark e smith:Some parents believe it is their gift to be able to educate their children. That's what opportunity is about (there's a great story on this in the documentary "Spellbound" – one migrant farmer from Mexico…very cool).
If you want a 'higher education' then pay for the bastard yourself.
In a more technological world people are attaining higher levels of education, someone has to pay for that education.
Now I'd pay for post-graduate work, but what's wrong with parents paying if they are able?
Originally posted by Celestial Balls:
In some ways yes, in some ways no way (especially Dad)Ditto with my dad. In many ways, he was able to not think about a thing but doing his job. He is the bomb, but not very emotionally sophisticated.
I don't see anything wrong with parents paying for a kids undergraduate education…my parents did it for me, and I intend to do it for my future kid.
My thoughts are that it just delays emotional maturity…at least I believe it did for me….
My dad, on the other hand, graduated from high school at 16 and was on his own from that day forward. After a stint in the Air Force, he worked a full time job while putting himself through engineering school in three years, while my mom worked as well.
I spent my 20something years drinking and fucking (on my own dime), and generally not having a partner who I had to be concerned about.
My point was, at least in my own case, that people had to mature and learn to be responsible at an earlier age than in the past.
My thoughts are that it just delays emotional maturity…at least I believe it did for me….
My dad, on the other hand, graduated from high school at 16 and was on his own from that day forward. After a stint in the Air Force, he worked a full time job while putting himself through engineering school in three years, while my mom worked as well.
I spent my 20something years drinking and fucking (on my own dime), and generally not having a partner who I had to be concerned about.
My point was, at least in my own case, that people had to mature and learn to be responsible at an earlier age than in the past.
Well, my Dad, who is probably the same age as yours, had his parents pay for seven years of school, where he drank, screwed around, went to jazz clubs and read magazines, until the last coupla years when he suddenly snapped to. I don't think it's an issue of now versus then, but opportunities. [And remember, this discussion was initially about the 1990s versus today…]
Teens need to start making loads more babies, or else the military draft will have to be reintsated. Preteen sex is your patriotic duty! Get to humpin now.
I've been on my own since 18, paid my own college (loans) and took care of myself and still managed to fuck off all through my 20's on my own dime. I'm a little behind the curve financially, and, I admit, sometimes a little bitter that someone else didn't pay…but I have alot of pride, am extremely self-reliant and know how to get shit done…
Someone get me a beer!
Rhett?
Someone get me a beer!
Rhett?
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:sir, yes sir!
Teens need to start making loads more babies, or else the military draft will have to be reintsated. Preteen sex is your patriotic duty! Get to humpin now.
Guess my thoughts got off track on this one.
My bottom line is that just because someone grows boobs and pubes at age 10 doesn't mean they are emotionally ready to handle a sexual relationship at 14. There's no right age, but I'd put it close to 17. Worry about getting into college first, then explore your sexuality.
My bottom line is that just because someone grows boobs and pubes at age 10 doesn't mean they are emotionally ready to handle a sexual relationship at 14. There's no right age, but I'd put it close to 17. Worry about getting into college first, then explore your sexuality.
Originally posted by Celestial Balls:I respect you much more than those who sponged off mummy and daddy for college…not that my respect is important of course.
I've been on my own since 18, paid my own college (loans) and took care of myself and still managed to fuck off all through my 20's on my own dime. I'm a little behind the curve financially, and, I admit, sometimes a little bitter that someone else didn't pay…but I have alot of pride, am extremely self-reliant and know how to get shit done…
Someone get me a beer!
Rhett?
I left home at 16 to join the military and grew up guick…By 17 I had a lease on a flat and all the other responsibilities that come with it. I'd say I matured pretty darn quick after age 16.
You don't OWE your kids a college education, and you shouldn't spend your retirement on it for example. Sure, if you can help them by having them live with you while they pay for their own education or buy them are cheap reliable car so they can get to and from jobs to pay for college that helps. But I just don't agree with having a dependent till they're 22/23 years old.
I suppose I come from a different culture, but my wife believes the same, probably stronger than I do actually having paid for her own education and her brother is putting himself through law school at the moment…he does go home to their parents every weekend and brings his laundry and eats for free etc….but that's the only help he WANTS from them.
Originally posted by Venerable Balls:unfortunately, emotions don't always come into play so much…I agree that they're too young to handle it, really, but how to hold off the curiosity and desire?
Guess my thoughts got off track on this one.
My bottom line is that just because someone grows boobs and pubes at age 10 doesn't mean they are emotionally ready to handle a sexual relationship at 14. There's no right age, but I'd put it close to 17. Worry about getting into college first, then explore your sexuality.
Originally posted by mankie:thanks…I tend to agree with you, but we plan to at least pay for undergrad tuition, if everything goes as planned…however,I wouldn't put myself in a precarious financial position (re-fi the house, etc., not retire til 85 or whatever) to do so, though
I respect you much more than those who sponged off mummy and daddy for college…You don't OWE your kids a college education, and you shouldn't spend your retirement on it for example…
though the kid might work a part time job to help out…though that's all 20 frigging years away.
Originally posted by Celestial Balls:
Originally posted by mankie:thanks…I tend to agree with you, but we plan to at least pay for undergrad tuition, if everything goes as planned…however,I wouldn't put myself in a precarious financial position (re-fi the house, etc., not retire til 85 or whatever) to do so, though
I respect you much more than those who sponged off mummy and daddy for college…You don't OWE your kids a college education, and you shouldn't spend your retirement on it for example…
Originally posted by mankie:I don't understand this concept that letting your parents pay for your college is sponging off of them. They're not being forced to do so. If putting me through college would have sent my dad to the poor house or a cardboard box for retirement, he wouldn't have done it (actually, he would have wanted to, but I wouldn't have let him).
Originally posted by Celestial Balls:I respect you much more than those who sponged off mummy and daddy for college…
I've been on my own since 18, paid my own college (loans) and took care of myself…
You don't OWE your kids a college education, and you shouldn't spend your retirement on it for example. Sure, if you can help them by having them live with you while they pay for their own education or buy them are cheap reliable car so they can get to and from jobs to pay for college that helps. But I just don't agree with having a dependent till they're 22/23 years old.
I suppose I come from a different culture, but my wife believes the same, probably stronger than I do actually having paid for her own education and her brother is putting himself through law school at the moment…he does go home to their parents every weekend and brings his laundry and eats for free etc….but that's the only help he WANTS from them.
I think that's full of sh*t. In my family, that's one of the abilities success brings – educating your children.
If I'd gone to law school, I would have dealt with that on my own. Makes sense, I've gotten my good baseline through undergrad, now I'm off to make some decisions on how I want to proceed.
ABSOLUTELY Celeste (and your wife) get credit and respect for doing it on their own. However, that doesn't make the converse true – that folks who had it paid for are to be derided or less respected. Their families were blessed and place a high value on education.
Bags…I wasn't intending to put anyone down, that's why I made my "different culture" comment.
I just hear so many parents make comments like…"I don't know how we're going to pay for Cedrics college"…Then don't! A person should be self sufficient by age 18, and if they want to go to college then God bless, but there's responsibility and expenses involved with that.
Those kids who expect to have their education paid for and nothing short of spongers…again, in my opinion.
I have a friend who had an agreement with his son that he would pay for college as long as his grades were kept at a certain level….accomodation was his own responsibility….his grades dropped a semester and that was the end of it. The son got his act together, moved out of his apartment and into the dorm as a "monitor" or whatever they are called, so he got free accomodation and paid for the rest of his education on his own.
I just hear so many parents make comments like…"I don't know how we're going to pay for Cedrics college"…Then don't! A person should be self sufficient by age 18, and if they want to go to college then God bless, but there's responsibility and expenses involved with that.
Those kids who expect to have their education paid for and nothing short of spongers…again, in my opinion.
I have a friend who had an agreement with his son that he would pay for college as long as his grades were kept at a certain level….accomodation was his own responsibility….his grades dropped a semester and that was the end of it. The son got his act together, moved out of his apartment and into the dorm as a "monitor" or whatever they are called, so he got free accomodation and paid for the rest of his education on his own.
Originally posted by Bags:I have to agree with Bags on the above.
I don't understand this concept that letting your parents pay for your college is sponging off of them.
In my family, that's one of the abilities success brings – educating your children.
My parents were immigrants without a high school education, and their pride was that they were able to sucessfully put their 4 kids through college. Be it we had to help in the family business or work part-time jobs. It doesn't mean we were less responsible than those that did it on their own.
Maybe if you are on your own, you grow up faster than others - but in some cultures you provide comfort for your kids as they are educated and develop - that is the norm.