I hope these are all Ivy league schools you're going to. I'd hate to see all that hard earned bread your poor parents sweated go to waste on some jerkwater teachers college-with-a-good-football-team institute.
why are american's so repressed?
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:Even if you don't want to…you're also agreeing with me by your comment above. You helped with your college education even if you didn't sign the tuition fee checks.
Originally posted by Bags:I have to agree with Bags on the above.
I don't understand this concept that letting your parents pay for your college is sponging off of them.
In my family, that's one of the abilities success brings – educating your children.
Be it we had to help in the family business or work part-time jobs. It doesn't mean we were less responsible than those that did it on their own.
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:luckily, harvard is eliminating tuition for kids who's parents make less than $40,000 a year.
I hope these are all Ivy league schools you're going to. I'd hate to see all that hard earned bread your poor parents sweated go to waste on some jerkwater teachers college-with-a-good-football-team institute.
Harvard eliminates tuition for some
Wed Mar 10, 9:40 AM ET Add Top Stories - Chicago Tribune to My Yahoo!
By Ron DePasquale Special to the Tribune
Peter Brown did not come to Harvard University to move boxes.
Yet the 22-year-old sociology and Portuguese literature major from Oklahoma has been spending up to 18 hours a week moving boxes and doing other odd jobs to pay his $280 monthly tuition bill. Beginning next fall, however, Brown will be able to devote more time to his studies, because Harvard will not charge students whose parents, like Brown's mother, make less than $40,000 a year.
The new aid program, announced late last month by Harvard President Lawrence Summers, has sent shock waves through the Ivy League and the rest of the nation's colleges, where big tuition increases have become an annual event.
Summers cited new research that shows there are 25 times as many students from the top-income quarter as the bottom at the nation's 146 most selective public and private schools.
Along with eliminating the average $2,300 expected contribution from low-income students' families, Harvard also announced that students whose parents earn from $40,000 to $60,000 will receive a substantial increase in aid.
Tuition, room, board and fees at Harvard cost $37,928 this year.
Brown, a junior, said he and other students have been paying their parents' share of tuition because they didn't want to ask them for money.
Harvard also plans to more aggressively recruit low-income students, making sure they know they can afford to attend college. Low-income families often overestimate the cost of attending a university, new federal research shows.
"Too often, outstanding students from families of modest means do not believe that college is an option for them, much less an Ivy League university," Summers said at the recent meeting of the American Council on Education in Miami, according to a transcript published by Harvard. "Our doors have long been open to talented students regardless of financial need, but many students simply do not know or believe this. We are determined to change both the perception and the reality."
After decades of efforts to make campuses racially diverse, a push is on to include more low-income students as well, said Richard Kahlenberg, a senior fellow at The Century Foundation, a progressive policy institute in Washington. Kahlenberg edited "America's Untapped Resource: Low-Income Students in Higher Education," the book that contained much of the research cited by Summers.
"What Summers is doing is really inspiring," said Kahlenberg. "Someone needed to take the leadership role on this question of economic inequality."
Just 7 percent of Harvard undergraduates represent the lowest quarter of American household incomes, and 16 percent are from the bottom half. Almost three-quarters have parents whose earnings are in the top quarter. Those numbers are even worse on average at the top 146 colleges: only 3 percent of students are from the bottom quarter, and 10 percent are from the bottom half, according to "America's Untapped Resource."
The gap between rich and poor students has grown because as college costs have increased dramatically, government and philanthropic aid programs have shifted from helping students in need to students of merit, said Brian Fitzgerald, staff director of the Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance, which advises Congress.
Not many schools can afford to give low-income students a full ride like Harvard can, so the Advisory Committee is calling on Congress to shift student aid back to low-income students, Fitzgerald said. Federal Pell Grants, which helped low-income students pay for about 40 percent of the cost of attending a private college in the mid-1970s but now cover about 15 percent, should be increased "as much as possible," he said.
The Harvard decision will likely influence negotiations in Congress as the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act is debated, Fitzgerald said. The maximum Pell Grant is $4,050.
In his recent speech, Summers tried to dispel the notion that low-income students are less qualified than others. Affluent students attend schools that offer extra-curricular activities that burnish resumes and can afford SAT prep courses that help boost their scores–opportunities often unavailable to low-income students, he said.
As for Brown, the Harvard student says his experience of just scraping by at college led him to change career goals.
"I wanted to be a millionaire, and I didn't care how I did it," Brown said. "It sounds maudlin, but this has changed me. Now I'd be happy directing a financial-aid program."
My brothers and I had no option but to expect college would be paid for, going to college was expected of us from an early age. We were told they were paying for 4 years of undergrad, anything after that (extra years of undergrad or any grad school) had to be paid for by us. It made sure that my brothers and I graduated in 4 years, which for some reason ended up being not that common among people I went to high school with.
It may sound ironic or unlikely, but often the most expensive schools have the best aid programs, as they are need based only. I have a cousin who lives in rural Vermont and parents make little; my family urged him to not limit the schools he looked at, but find the schools that fit him and at least give it a try – see what the aid packages might look like. In the end, Vassar gave him a better package than even his state universities…he's paying nearly nothing.
Now, since his parents can't afford it and it would cause a burden, he's obviously helping by getting loans in his name and working on campus.
Still, something to remember when your wee ones are looking at colleges and universities.
Now, since his parents can't afford it and it would cause a burden, he's obviously helping by getting loans in his name and working on campus.
Still, something to remember when your wee ones are looking at colleges and universities.
Originally posted by mankie:Yes, I do agree. My parents wanted me to get a college degree, but they instilled some responsibility in me by making me "earn" part of it. I didn't need to work for the tuition, but rather for the responsibility.
[Even if you don't want to…you're also agreeing with me by your comment above. You helped with your college education even if you didn't sign the tuition fee checks. [/QB]
The only thing we differ on is that I think because you are not out on your own at 18 doesn't make you more mature or responsible than those that were subsidized by their parents.
I think the universities need to consider WHERE the person lives when it comes to aid packages.
A family of four in rural Vermont can probably get by just fine on 40K. Not so in this area.
A family of four in rural Vermont can probably get by just fine on 40K. Not so in this area.
Originally posted by bunnyballs:They're not living on $40K, I can assure you.
A family of four in rural Vermont can probably get by just fine on 40K. Not so in this area.
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:good football, good basketball and good education
I hope these are all Ivy league schools you're going to. I'd hate to see all that hard earned bread your poor parents sweated go to waste on some jerkwater teachers college-with-a-good-football-team institute.
Univ. of MD at College Park:
The university was 17th in the ranking of national public universities (US News & World Report)
The Clark School of Engineering was ranked 25th in the nation (among schools whose highest degree is a doctorate). US News
So you don't have to pay for Ivy league schools to get a quality education.
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:what is their student-to-teacher ratio? how many freshman/sophmore level classes are taught by professors and not grad. students? that's the biggest strike, imo, against public universities.
good football, good basketball and good education
Univ. of MD at College Park:
The university was 17th in the ranking of national public universities (US News & World Report)
The Clark School of Engineering was ranked 25th in the nation (among schools whose highest degree is a doctorate). US News
So you don't have to pay for Ivy league schools to get a quality education.
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:But they're so pretty!!!
So you don't have to pay for Ivy league schools to get a quality education.
:p
Do you believe everything you read in the US News & World Report?
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:You just keep right on believing that, Mr.Educated, and aim high!
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:good football, good basketball and good education
I hope these are all Ivy league schools you're going to. I'd hate to see all that hard earned bread your poor parents sweated go to waste on some jerkwater teachers college-with-a-good-football-team institute.
Univ. of MD at College Park:
The university was 17th in the ranking of national public universities (US News & World Report)
The Clark School of Engineering was ranked 25th in the nation (among schools whose highest degree is a doctorate). US News
So you don't have to pay for Ivy league schools to get a quality education.
Except for the classes taught by professors who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag. What makes a college professor any better a teacher than a grad student? Neither have had classes on HOW to teach a class. And if you're talking about undergraduate level course material, it's quite possible that both grad student and professor both know the material sufficiently. They're both probably more concerned with their research than they are with you, anyway.
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:what is their student-to-teacher ratio? how many freshman/sophmore level classes are taught by professors and not grad. students? that's the biggest strike, imo, against public universities.
good football, good basketball and good education
Univ. of MD at College Park:
The university was 17th in the ranking of national public universities (US News & World Report)
The Clark School of Engineering was ranked 25th in the nation (among schools whose highest degree is a doctorate). US News
So you don't have to pay for Ivy league schools to get a quality education.
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:I remember being in lecture halls with 300 others realizing that I didn't have to be there if I didn't want to. I also had grad students teaching but I couldn't understand what they were saying through their accents!!!
what is their student-to-teacher ratio? how many freshman/sophmore level classes are taught by professors and not grad. students? that's the biggest strike, imo, against public universities. [/QB]
My grades hit the sh*tter and that was a wake-up call that I had to study more on my own.
All those points you make were somewhat of a handicap, but it also depends on the individuals' free-will and discipline.
The end result was well worth it for less $$$!
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:You are right. You come up with a better rating system (besides the aura of Ivy league - didn't Bush go to an Ivy League school?) and I will be happy to read it.
You just keep right on believing that, Mr.Educated, and aim high!
Love,
Mr. Educated (and Athletic)
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:Then enlighten us with your knowledge, O learned one. What wisdom can you impart besides posting to bboards and quoting Newsweeklies?
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:You are right. You come up with a better rating system (besides the aura of Ivy league - didn't Bush go to an Ivy League school?) and I will be happy to read it.
You just keep right on believing that, Mr.Educated, and aim high!
Love,
Mr. Educated (and Athletic)
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:so, it's more about how the student looks at studying and learning than the teachers? well, then what was point of all those figures you posted earlier? are not those based on quality of teaching, not necessarily the quality of the students?
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:I remember being in lecture halls with 300 others realizing that I didn't have to be there if I didn't want to. I also had grad students teaching but I couldn't understand what they were saying through their accents!!!
what is their student-to-teacher ratio? how many freshman/sophmore level classes are taught by professors and not grad. students? that's the biggest strike, imo, against public universities.
My grades hit the sh*tter and that was a wake-up call that I had to study more on my own.
All those points you make were somewhat of a handicap, but it also depends on the individuals' free-will and discipline.
The end result was well worth it for less $$$! [/QB]
nevertheless, i completely agree that it is encumbent upon the student to study hard in order to get one's money's worth. however, the task is much more difficult if you are one of 300 in one room and/or the grad student can't speak english. what is the actual value of that education then?
Forget the grad students. I've had professors who can't speak english.
Originally posted by Bags:I agree they shouldn't be derided…
ABSOLUTELY Celeste (and your wife) get credit and respect for doing it on their own. However, that doesn't make the converse true – that folks who had it paid for are to be derided or less respected. Their families were blessed and place a high value on education.
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:Leave your comic book store one night and meet me at the club and I will be happy to discuss the principles of engineering with you over a beer. I never claimed to know everything but I am certainly educated in my field, regardles of not attending Harvard or Yale - which was my original point. After the beer we can arm wrestle or have a discussion about posting pictures of Osama entitled "Santas little Helper" - your choice.
Originally posted by Groundkeeper's Willy:Then enlighten us with your knowledge, O learned one. What wisdom can you impart besides posting to bboards and quoting Newsweeklies?
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:You are right. You come up with a better rating system (besides the aura of Ivy league - didn't Bush go to an Ivy League school?) and I will be happy to read it.
You just keep right on believing that, Mr.Educated, and aim high!
Love,
Mr. Educated (and Athletic)