9:30 Club Sues Over Subsidies for Planned Live Nation Venue in Silver Spring

Of course I agree the city of Silver Spring should have better things to spend their money on than the Fillmore.

But its pure malarkey that Seth or IMP are suing for any reason other than their own bottom dollar.

As a consumer I'm pretty sure I'd benefit from the Fillmore (more choice, more venues, more acts hitting DC that Live Nation can't fit into the Warner, DAR or Jiffy LUbe, etc) and I want to see it built..

Tax dollars are so often wasted on things that don't benefit me.. I mean so the Nats stadium was a huge waste of money..but guess what? I like baseball and I enjoy seeing the Nats for $5..

If we're going to really get into how our tax dollars are spent there are plenty of worse things - for me- than a concert venue where I could rock out..

AND nothing stops Seth from putting his IMP money where his mouth is and building the venue without the subsidies..I would applaud that..

He has said repeatedly that he has offered the county to build it completely out of pocket and was turned down. The fact of the matter is this venue was not thrown out there for bids and was simply handed over to Live Nation after the Birchmere deal went south.
Shady deal that needs more examination if you ask me. And accusing him of quoting Ayn Rand and not doing so to ridicule her is a serious charge that needs linkage.

hutch wrote:
AND nothing stops Seth from putting his IMP money where his mouth is and building the venue without the subsidies..I would applaud that..

Gd bless the 9:30 club. 

The fillmore deal is a gross perversion of capitalism and democracy.  A monopolistic corporation supports a county executive who in turn provides millions plus a sweetheart lease so monopolistic corp can open dubious rock and roll style club in suburb better suited to supporting red lobster and macaroni grill?  Fuck that shit.  This is suppossed to be a capitalist society. If club can survive in that dead part of the universe let a business be on the hook.  That's what capitalism is supposed to be.  For govt to finance it in exchange for campaign funds is utter bullshit.  If you disagree you are part of the problem.*


* And by 'part of the problem' I mean you are a wannabe frontrunner who is able to be manipulated to believe that oligapolies and rigged systems are actually capitalism/democracy and therefore play into the hands of those who want to rig the system

I don't know what all of you do for a living, but how would you feel if you worked hard for 30 years, never took a penny from the government, and now the government was going to subsidize someone trying to put you out of business?

I will cry foul every time I see it, at every turn. Ask the Birchmere, Black Cat, Wolf Trap, or any of my honest competitors if I have ever done anything to fuck with them.

Questioning my motives is not dealing with the issues…like pointing at a coach that's thrown a red flag and saying "hey, he's just trying to win, so who cares about that foul!"

Hahaha!!! I should have known that it was ol' Mr. Natural pissing all over the tax payers! On top of that, accussing me of what he himself is so notoriously infamous for!

Btw Mr. Natural, admittedly, I don't recall exactly, but I don't think that the citizens even had a chance to vote on this. Seems there was some sort of town meeting with lots of outrage and some support but, as corrupt politicans always do, they used it to let the people vent assuming they would forget about it in the morning and then he went on his merry way of continuing to rape and pillage his very own county and anyone else who comes in contact with them.

@Mobius - Good post!

Your's too, Sir HC.

Live Nation could make this controversy go away by giving taxpayers 100,000 $40 tickets. That's just 50 sold-out shows by artists worth a $40 ticket. See, all better now!

Seth wrote:
I don't know what all of you do for a living, but how would you feel if you worked hard for 30 years, never took a penny from the government, and now the government was going to subsidize someone trying to put you out of business?

I will cry foul every time I see it, at every turn. Ask the Birchmere, Black Cat, Wolf Trap, or any of my honest competitors if I have ever done anything to fuck with them.

Questioning my motives is not dealing with the issues…like pointing at a coach that's thrown a red flag and saying "hey, he's just trying to win, so who cares about that foul!"

welcome . . . to  . . . america.  where have you been living?

Seth wrote:
I don't know what all of you do for a living, but how would you feel if you worked hard for 30 years, never took a penny from the government, and now the government was going to subsidize someone trying to put you out of business?

How are they gonna put you out of business?

Have IMP thought about snagging the Bethesda Theater Cafe which is going up for sale next week? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/16/AR2010061605100.html
Not sure what the capacity would be (with those tables taken out) or the zoning, however I know they did have live music back in the late 1980s

1st and to be clear: God Bless the 930. Thank you Seth and thank you IMP. As someone said at the 930 30th bash "Its hard to imagine DC without the 930." My better half will be there tonight groovin' to the Goldfrapp. I love the place.

But this whole "capitalism needs to be fair" is beyond ridiculous… Capitalism is not a sport Seth.

Of course there should not be subsidies in this case UNLESS the city of SIlver SPring or whatever it is can demonstrate that the benefits to the city will outweigh the subsidy…They presumably have to do this to their citizens (voters) or they will be run out of office..My understanding is this is all a part of their "redevelop downtown silver spring" project and woul dhave a some benefits for Silver SPring..regardlessw, of course they should have bid it out.. Just as Mayor Fenty should not hook up his crony friends with contracts or Sheila Dixon shouldn't use money for education to buy herself clothes…  There are a lot bigger things to get outraged about in terms of local government than a subsidy for a popular arts venue 30-45 minutes away from the 930.


BUT the idea that capitalism is always fair… this Ayn Rand third grade philosophy about survival of the fittest in a pure competition model is beyond simplistic. This "textbook capitalism" is just not the way the world works. I read Lefsetz too btw.

Again Seth, are you against the city of DC subsidizing the Lincoln Theatre? Why not express your outrage and refuse to book at the place? Oh, because they don't directly compete with you? Are you against subsidizing Ben's Chili Bown in spite of  its historic nature? Why have their 50th party at the 930 then? WHat about the guy who is trying to compete with Ben's? Are you suing on his behalf? (Note: I am not saying I am for or against any subsidy) What about the Howard Theater?

Governmments make decisions every day about where to spend citizen's dollars… if the citizens of Silver Spring think its so teririble  they'll vote the bums out of office…Apparently they do not.

Seth and IMP look at it from their bottom dollar perspective..thats understandable.. IF this venue is ever built it will put Live Nation in a position to finally take it to the 930 in the DC market.. The 930 can't help but be against this and it just doesn't pass the smell test for them to say "yes, it would benefit us if this venue was never built but thats not why were' against it.. its just plain wrong thats why we are against it!"

But I don't work for IMP and am not in Justin Jones and Driving Rain and I look at it from MY perspective and I think from my perspective I have to say the 930 could use a little competition and the area could use a bigger music (i.e., not DAR) venue. It has been my hope for many years that IMP would build a bigger venue.. they have not done that and what they are saying is essentially "lets keep things as is.." while we continue to book a substandard venue (DAR) for our bigger shows in DC (not talkin' about Merriweather). Thats not realistic because the market has changed. If the Fillmore does not get built in Silver Spring it will probably be built somewhere else anyways..

My unsolicited and admittedly probably uninformed advise to Seth is put your money where your mouth is… there is demand …. meet with the DC city council people and tell them you are serious about building a bigger music venue in DC… I would not be surprised if this has already happened. The demand is there and if its not Live Nation somebody else will build it eventually… I seem to recall reading about Madison Square Garden people wanting to come to DC (arguably to build a bigger venue)

Ayn Rand is an idiot thought profound by parents'-basement-dwellers everywhere, I don't know why she's creeping into this discussion amongst intelligent people…

the bottom line is that this deal seems questionable on many fronts (as do many government subsidies for private business).    If this were put to a referendum for the residents of Silver Spring, would they approve it?  I don't think so. 

Suing is a reasonable business reaction to an inappropriate and potentially damaging action.

hutch wrote:
There are a lot bigger things to get outraged about in terms of local government than a subsidy for a popular arts venue 30-45 minutes away from the 930.

its only 6 miles

Doctor wrote:
Ayn Rand is an idiot thought profound by parents'-basement-dwellers everywhere, I don't know why she's creeping into this discussion amongst intelligent people…

the bottom line is that this deal seems questionable on many fronts (as do many government subsidies for private business).     If this were put to a referendum for the residents of Silver Spring, would they approve it?  I don't think so.   

Suing is a reasonable business reaction to an inappropriate and potentially damaging action.

I agree Doctor Doom. The reason I mentioned Ayn Rand is because of this quote from Seth Hurwitz on June 9 of this year on the Lefsetz Newsletter:

"let me make something perfectly clear to anyone who hasn't read Ayn Rand:

I AM A CAPITALIST…I AM TRYING TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AT THIS AS I CAN"

I figured it was closer than 30-45 minutes away.


Maybe Hutch rides a burro around town. If so, that is kind of awesome.

Fixed before the spelling and grammar police got to it!

azaghal1981 wrote:
I figured it was closer than 30-45 minutes away.


Maybe Hutch rides a burro around town. If so, that is kind of awesome.

I would assume that is how long it takes him once he leaves his humble abode and takes the Metro up to Silver Spring. After all, we all know that that is, in fact, the official exact center of the Natural universe.

Edit: Fixed Az's post because I'm in collusion with him.  ;)

Jaguar wrote:

azaghal1981 wrote:
I figured it was closer than 30-45 minutes away.


Maybe Hutch rides a burrow around town. If so, that is kind of awesome.

I would assume that is how long it takes him once he leaves his humble abode and takes the Metro up to Silver Spring. After all, we all know that that is in fact the official exact center of the universe.

Well I live by the 930 so yes I think it takes 30-45 minutes when all is said and done to metro up there..

NO car and no burro sorry to say.

You'd think with all the money Hutch has saved by NOT going to mid-size venue shows, he could have afforded a car AND a burro by now.

fatskippy wrote:

hutch wrote:
There are a lot bigger things to get outraged about in terms of local government than a subsidy for a popular arts venue 30-45 minutes away from the 930.

its only 6 miles

Yeah and it takes 30 to 45 minutes to drive those 6 miles.  I don't think this is going to register on anyones radar.  Look how much money they spent on the Baseball Stadium in DC. 

Also, I don't know why anyone want to be in a club bigger than 930 club.  I think the 930 club is too big as it is.  Really anything larger than the Black Cat in size should be a seated venue with stadium seating.

hutch wrote:

Doctor wrote:
Ayn Rand is an idiot thought profound by parents'-basement-dwellers everywhere, I don't know why she's creeping into this discussion amongst intelligent people…

the bottom line is that this deal seems questionable on many fronts (as do many government subsidies for private business).     If this were put to a referendum for the residents of Silver Spring, would they approve it?  I don't think so.   

Suing is a reasonable business reaction to an inappropriate and potentially damaging action.

I agree Doctor Doom. The reason I mentioned Ayn Rand is because of this quote from Seth Hurwitz on June 9 of this year on the Lefsetz Newsletter:


"let me make something perfectly clear to anyone who hasn't read Ayn Rand:

I AM A CAPITALIST…I AM TRYING TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AT THIS AS I CAN"

Looks like Seth can't win. He's not running a charity or some non-profit, you know.

Now if Mr. Natural straps up his burro and goes around the city selling cucumbers, I guess it would be for kicks or something other than 'trying to make the most money that he can'. Just wait until he finds out that the tax money he's collected to pay off the man is then going straight into the pockets of Hans across the street to sell cucumbers to the same people. Plus, Hans isn't paying to feed and shelter his burro. Mr. Natural's Cucumber business and the good citizens are. But Mr. Natural better still come up with all of his taxes, fees, etc., while paying for every aspect of his business on his own. And if he dare complains, he'll be taken down by those who think that he has no right to do so.

Mr. Natural driving at top speed to make it to Silver Spring hoping to get there in time to see the opener.