Since the gun ban has been reversed...

people will just have to face the facts that more people will die from handguns if they are made legal.

I really dont care one way or the other considering criminals are still going to get guns and use them and i am not going to ever own one either way. I just think the "home invasion" scenario is highly laughable and probably accounts for .004% of all gun related crimes, injuries and deaths.

if you really think a gun is what you need, you can get one on the black market pretty freakin easily and if the time comes when you are actually put in that situation where someone is pointing a gun at you and you happen to have yours handy and have the willingness to use it and think you can draw, aim and shoot faster than the guy who already has a gun pulled on you…are you really gonna care whether the handgun you have is legal or not?

please.

my beef with gun fetishists is their general hypocrisy towards the gun issue and (1) related law-and-order issues and (2) other individual right issues

gun nuts are generally those who push for "law-and-order" types of policies, granting law enforcement agencies more leeway to violate the 4th and 5th Amendment rights of citizens (search/seizure, right to an attorney during interrogation, etc) … but once the 2nd Amendment is implicated, they suddenly think that the government should back off

sure, some libertarians have some kind of intellectual integrity by saying the government should protect all of our rights, but your typical wingnut wants to see the government (a) fry criminals (who cares if the cops weren't allowed to search the scum-sucker) and (b) restrict 1st amendment rights, while protecting their precious "right" to keep and bear arms

Originally posted by Erinaceous Sonickus:

if you really think a gun is what you need, you can get one on the black market pretty freakin easily and if the time comes when you are actually put in that situation where someone is pointing a gun at you and you happen to have yours handy and have the willingness to use it and think you can draw, aim and shoot faster than the guy who already has a gun pulled on you…are you really gonna care whether the handgun you have is legal or not?
please.

Uh…how about I just buy one legally unencumbered by unnecessary laws?

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
my beef with gun fetishists is their general hypocrisy towards the gun issue and (1) related law-and-order issues and (2) other individual right issues

gun nuts are generally those who push for "law-and-order" types of policies, granting law enforcement agencies more leeway to violate the 4th and 5th Amendment rights of citizens (search/seizure, right to an attorney during interrogation, etc) … but once the 2nd Amendment is implicated, they suddenly think that the government should back off

sure, some libertarians have some kind of intellectual integrity by saying the government should protect all of our rights, but your typical wingnut wants to see the government (a) fry criminals (who cares if the cops weren't allowed to search the scum-sucker) and (b) restrict 1st amendment rights, while protecting their precious "right" to keep and bear arms

Go to a gun range and take an informal poll of whether the people there think it's OK for the authorities to barge into someone's home because of the "war on drugs" or some similar bullshit where people have given up their rights and taken it in the ass because the government has asked them to and promised that it would help fix things, I think you'd be surprised how your theory may be debunked.

two keys to republican success in the last 20 years or so has been hammering democrats on being "soft on crime" and "wanting to take your guns away"

you don't see those as contradictory?

you really think the average person who is swayed by a willie horton ad isn't someone sympathetic to the NRA's position on gun rights?

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll of whether the people there think it's OK for the authorities to barge into someone's home because of the "war on drugs" or some similar bullshit where people have given up their rights and taken it in the ass because the government has asked them to and promised that it would help fix things, I think you'd be surprised how your theory may be debunked.

i agree, the one time i was at a gun range i wasn't exactly doing ideological field research, but i'm sure there were plenty of libertarian types … i should have reframed my argument as a macro-political look:

politicians seem to think that the bubbas who get mad at politicians for being "soft on crime" also want them to "keep their hands of my guns"

is that justified? i'm sure there's plenty of outliers, but i'm guessing the constituencies are pretty similar

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll of whether the people there think it's OK for the authorities to barge into someone's home because of the "war on drugs" or some similar bullshit where people have given up their rights and taken it in the ass because the government has asked them to and promised that it would help fix things, I think you'd be surprised how your theory may be debunked.

You'd probably get shot actually.

Originally posted by Erinaceous Sonickus:

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll of whether the people there think it's OK for the authorities to barge into someone's home because of the "war on drugs" or some similar bullshit where people have given up their rights and taken it in the ass because the government has asked them to and promised that it would help fix things, I think you'd be surprised how your theory may be debunked.

You'd probably get shot actually.

Only if I attempted to feel them up while asking :p

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll of whether the people there think it's OK for the authorities to barge into someone's home because of the "war on drugs" or some similar bullshit where people have given up their rights and taken it in the ass because the government has asked them to and promised that it would help fix things, I think you'd be surprised how your theory may be debunked.

i agree, the one time i was at a gun range i wasn't exactly doing ideological field research, but i'm sure there were plenty of libertarian types … i should have reframed my argument as a macro-political look:

politicians seem to think that the bubbas who get mad at politicians for being "soft on crime" also want them to "keep their hands of my guns"

is that justified? i'm sure there's plenty of outliers, but i'm guessing the constituencies are pretty similar

What would you call the lack of any significant punishment for carrying an illegal firearm in DC? All bullshit political feelgood rhetoric aside I'd personally call it being soft.

I found this article interesting

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll

Um, going to a gun range is not really the best place to solicit intelligent thought.

Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll

Um, going to a gun range is not really the best place to solicit intelligent thought.

You slay me with your oh so spot on stereotyping.

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:

Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Go to a gun range and take an informal poll

Um, going to a gun range is not really the best place to solicit intelligent thought.

You slay me with your oh so spot on stereotyping.

i'm just surprised that a pro-gunner is even computer literate enough to converse in one of these here high tech chat rooms!

I hate that they've repealed it. Handguns suck.

Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:

Originally posted by vansmack:

Originally posted by vansmack:
Let me write the dissenting opinion for you:

There's only one purpose for a handgun - to kill another human being.

That's all I would say.

And animals, what about all the bambi murderers. I can understand killing another human because they're threatening you and your loved ones lives, but to sit in a tree in the pissing rain for hours on end to wait for a harmless deer to walk by then blow it's fucking brains out….that my friends, takes a real moron.

I am NOT into hunting at all. tried it one time and nada. I just don't get it. HOWEVER, in the case of deer hunting it is beneficial to the population to allow hunting. We all know the details. No need for me to go into that.

Another point though, I am not at all supportive of folks who go out hunting just to kill a (fill in animal of choice here) and bring its head home to hang on the wall. Hunting to feed your family is quite another thing though.

Originally posted by nkotb:
Why does no one shit their pants over having to license and register a car? Honestly, that seems a lot more "Big Brother" to me than having to license a device made for killing.

Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
It boggles my mind why people appear so ready and willing to bend over for the authorities.

Driving a car is a privilege.
Owning a firearm is a right.

Originally posted by Erinaceous Sonickus:
i'm just surprised that a pro-gunner is even computer literate enough to converse in one of these here high tech chat rooms!

Actually, pro-gunners tend to be frightened, insecure people, which is why you find so many of them on the internet, where they feel anonymous. It must be a sad feeling to feel unsafe without a gun.

I think of the typical urban/suburban pro-gunner as a Bernard Goetz type, a pencil-neck geek carrying around a lifetime of supressed rage, who reacted to a mugging on the NYC subway by opening fire and emptying his gun into his would-be attackers on a fully loaded subway while they were sitting down, risking the lives of innocents. He approached one of them, already lying down and wounded, and said "You don't look too bad; here's another," before shooting him again. In short, Goetz was trying to kill solely to fulfill his own macho fantasies built on extreme lack of self-esteem.

The one person I've ever known to own an assault rifle was a guy filled with anger at the world who still lived with his mom despite being 35. I was sure we'd someday read about him going berzerk at someone's school.

Anyone who actually pays attention to gun crime in the District, rather than cowering in their bedroom in fear of fictional home invasions, knows that the overwhelming majority of gun crimes here are related to the drug trade. If you are not involved in the drug trade, your biggest risk of getting shot is a stray bullet – a risk that adding Bernard Goetz types to the mix will only increase. We're all better off if such people stay at home with their moms in their gated communities, cradling their weapons in fear.

Originally posted by RatBastard:

Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:

Originally posted by vansmack:

Originally posted by vansmack:
Let me write the dissenting opinion for you:

There's only one purpose for a handgun - to kill another human being.

That's all I would say.

And animals, what about all the bambi murderers. I can understand killing another human because they're threatening you and your loved ones lives, but to sit in a tree in the pissing rain for hours on end to wait for a harmless deer to walk by then blow it's fucking brains out….that my friends, takes a real moron.

I am NOT into hunting at all. tried it one time and nada. I just don't get it. HOWEVER, in the case of deer hunting it is beneficial to the population to allow hunting. We all know the details. No need for me to go into that.

Another point though, I am not at all supportive of folks who go out hunting just to kill a (fill in animal of choice here) and bring its head home to hang on the wall. Hunting to feed your family is quite another thing though.

It's not over-population it's under habitated!! ?? (I think I just made up a new word)
I hear NY city is getting pretty full so why not pop a few New Yorkers off too to ease that crisis. I don't buy into lets kill em for their own good bullshit, nature takes care of itself. Florida construction has now started to have an effect on the alligator population so they're getting more and more aggressive and territorial so guess what?? They've started to kill them…for their own good. I have an idea..stop building on their land, they were here a long time before we were.

I know I'm being unrealistic but I can still have my opinions

I know it's a hallowed tradition in our country, but people who get off on killing an innocent animal are sick. If you want to hang out in close company of men all night comparing your rods, go to a gay bar and leave the animals out of it.

its interesting how the defense of the second amendment reflects our society. a simple reading of the amendment suggests its intent is to allow Americans to protect themselves in the context of organizing (presumably) against some kind of oppressive force. Of course its vague enough to be interpretted far more broadly. but what's interesting is how the second amendment is defended as SELF protection against fellow Americans - my right to fucking kill you if you fuck with me. There's an inherent paranoia and hate in that argument. Perhaps its justified - but its interesting to see the paranoia and hate that is ingrained the fabric of our society and defended so vigorously.

its too bad the British hadn't pissed off the Framers by banning thier hemp . . . .

my take on the whole gun control thing: when the impending zombie apocalypse happens i'm gonna be prepared, and y'all are on your own.