The Baltimore Orioles

Originally posted by med:
just because a team gets a new stadium, doesn't mean the team is going to be rolling in money and able to go out and compete for high level free agents. If it were then why has it taken the Brewers nearly 10 years to build a team with a chance to compete. Or even Pittsburgh, PNC Park opened in 2001 and they haven't had a competitive team in a long time.

it helps to have a competent GM. this is melvin's 5th year as GM for the brewers, and they have been getting better each year, even if the record doesn't quite reflect it. can't say the same for what the pirates have put upon the good citizens of pittsburgh though.

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
ALOT has to go right for it to happen the way he says it could,

i agree completely

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
and he never says where all the money is coming from, new stadium isnt always the revenue maker people expect, have the owners committed to spending lots?

boswell is one of the best baseball writers in the country, i assume he's done his homework on the nats' long-term spending plans

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
and he sure is reading a lot in to spring stats, people have been waiting for chris snelling to be a big league hitter for years

agreed, the picture he paints is certainly a best-case scenario … the tidbit about this season that i found most interesting, however, was the vegas prediction: i'm a firm proponent of philosophy that vegas sportsbook futures sheets are fantastic predictors … those handicappers really know what they're doing, and while the lines on many individual games are set to encourage equal action on both sides, futures odds do a great job of picking up on trends that many pass over, especially for teams that lack a large fan base who will always put money on them to win the championship ever year and are therefore get overrated odds (red wings, cowboys, yankees, etc)

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
it helps to have a competent GM…can't say the same for what the pirates have put upon the good citizens of pittsburgh though.

I would do Littlefield's job for free, and win more games - I GUARANTEE IT!

Originally posted by med:
just because a team gets a new stadium, doesn't mean the team is going to be rolling in money and able to go out and compete for high level free agents. If it were then why has it taken the Brewers nearly 10 years to build a team with a chance to compete. Or even Pittsburgh, PNC Park opened in 2001 and they haven't had a competitive team in a long time

wow, where do i start with this … did Boswell ever imply that the only reason the nats will be spending more money is because of the new stadium? are you really trying to compare the Washington, DC area and the Nationals to the Milwaukee Brewers and the Pittsburgh Pirates??

Originally posted by med:
The only way for the Nats to compete is going follow the method of the A's and Twins and develop a good farm system, which requires a tremendous amount of luck, smart management decisions, and good coaching. They need to develop a good core group of young players and then be willing to trade those players to the Yankees, Red Sox, and the other teams who still think free agency is the way to build a team.

what?!? this may be a strong way for a small-to-mid market team like the Brewers, Pirates, A's, or Twins to compete in this league, but the Nats leadership have indicated that their spending will be on par with the Cubs, Braves, and Mets … so why the hell is emulating a small-market team "the only way for them to compete," when they have money to burn ??

Originally posted by med:
I wouldn't look for the Nats to be competitive for at least 6-7 years.

i don't have a crystal ball, but i think i'll take boswell's word over your finely-honed analysis, it really seems like you're on top of things here

The only real problem with Boswell's analysis, from my perspective, is that he is overvaluing the Nats draft positions.

Their farm system is extremely light of big league talent, at last viewing I think they were in the high low 20's in farm systems. To think that they can draft their way into a contender in one season is a little shortsighted.

It takes more than money to buy high priced free agents to be a contender (something the cubs have never learned). It takes a good mix of young talent and free agents, and I think the young talent for the Nats is not going to be their in 1-3 years - especially in the pitching department.

Originally posted by vansmack:
The only real problem with Boswell's analysis, from my perspective, is that he is overvaluing the Nats draft positions.

fair enough, a very valid criticism

it's really absurd, however, to contend that the nats won't have a large payroll after their new stadium opens simply because the brewers / pirates couldn't spend much money after their stadiums opened … or, to say that the only valid way for the nats to compete is to follow 'moneyball' principles adopted by small-market teams

Originally posted by vansmack:
It takes more than money to buy high priced free agents to be a contender (something the cubs have never learned). It takes a good mix of young talent and free agents, and I think the young talent for the Nats is not going to be their in 1-3 years - especially in the pitching department.

i think the story of the Cubs franchise over the last 8 or 9 years begins and ends with Prior and Wood … if they had panned out as they should have, the Cubs would have had that "good mix of young talent and free agents" of which you speak … it's not like the Cubs are run by Dan Snyder or something, they just got absurdly unlucky

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
it's really absurd, however, to contend that the nats won't have a large payroll after their new stadium opens simply because the brewers / pirates couldn't spend much money after their stadiums opened … or, to say that the only valid way for the nats to compete is to follow 'moneyball' principles adopted by small-market teams

Well, Hoya to be fair, some might find it just as absurd to assume that because they will have the money to contend that they will. I only need to point out the Cubs payroll vs. playoff appearances to disspell that myth.

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
i think the story of the Cubs franchise over the last 8 or 9 years begins and ends with Prior and Wood … if they had panned out as they should have, the Cubs would have had that "good mix of young talent and free agents" of which you speak … it's not like the Cubs are run by Dan Snyder or something, they just got absurdly unlucky

its not luck, its being a Cub, as long as they serve beer at wrigley they will never have a fan base that REALLY cares if they win

well actually that means they will never have an owner that really cares, but I always take a chance to take a shot at cubs fans

my nightmare is Mark Cuban buying the Cubs, but he should buy the pirates

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
i think the story of the Cubs franchise over the last 8 or 9 years begins and ends with Prior and Wood … if they had panned out as they should have, the Cubs would have had that "good mix of young talent and free agents" of which you speak … it's not like the Cubs are run by Dan Snyder or something, they just got absurdly unlucky

I know I won't be alone in arguing that the Cubs did that to themsleves with their blatant over use of their young pitchers. That not unlucky, that's mismanagement.

Originally posted by vansmack:
I know I won't be alone in arguing that the Cubs did that to themsleves with their blatant over use of their young pitchers. That not unlucky, that's mismanagement.

dusty baker doesn't know how to handle pitchers? thats just crazy talk

Originally posted by vansmack:
I know I won't be alone in arguing that the Cubs did that to themsleves with their blatant over use of their young pitchers. That not unlucky, that's mismanagement.

perhaps this is a discussion best left for another day, but why are current american pitchers such fucking pussies?

[*leans back in his recliner, sparks a cigar*] back in my day, pitchers threw complete games three times a week, and they liked it! even today's japanese pithers are horses who throw in-between innings to keep limber and on their "off days"

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
dusty baker doesn't know how to handle pitchers? thats just crazy talk

Did you hear him in the booth yesterday on ESPN? I tell you, moments of brilliance, moments of shocking mismanagement. It was as if he were still in dugout only mic'ed up and thinking out loud. This is going to be great!

Originally posted by vansmack:
Well, Hoya to be fair, some might find it just as absurd to assume that because they will have the money to contend that they will. I only need to point out the Cubs payroll vs. playoff appearances to disspell that myth.

come on smackie, the correlation between payroll budget and contending chances are inextricably linked … using the cubs as an example of the opposite is an enormous, obese, blood-red herring

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
perhaps this is a discussion best left for another day, but why are current american pitchers such fucking pussies?

Dice K is already complaining about arm fatigue. Must be global warming in America.

Oh, and Carpenter has elbow soreness and will miss his next start. Good times.

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
come on smackie, the correlation between payroll budget and contending chances are inextricably linked …

Then explain the A's consistency.

Originally posted by vansmack:


Oh, and Carpenter has elbow soreness and will miss his next start. Good times.

thanks for ruining my night, I hadnt heard it yet and I am watching the game right now, they havent even mentioned it, I had a bad feeling about this year anyway, they get a year off from me after winning the series

I was actually looking more forward to the Blues/Coyotes game later tonight than the Cardinals

(joe buck just mentioned carpenter as I type)

Did not see Baker, which game did he do?

Originally posted by vansmack:

Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
come on smackie, the correlation between payroll budget and contending chances are inextricably linked …

Then explain the A's consistency.

i clearly mis-typed, i meant that the correlation is very strong, and exceptions to the rule are just that: exceptions

I'll be at the game on the 13th as well. Beanie hat night!

I don't care if the O's lose, I still heart them.

Monday, June 18, 2007
Perlozzo out as skipper; MacPhail hired as COO

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ESPN.com news services

Sam Perlozzo's brief tenure as Orioles manager ended Monday.


The team has called a 1 p.m. news conference where it will announce that Perlozzo has been fired. Orioles executives Mike Flanagan and Jim Duquette informed Perlozzo of the decision Monday, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reports.

Bullpen coach Dave Trembley, who has served as a minor league manager in the organization, will be the interim manager when the Orioles begin a six-game trip in San Diego on Tuesday.

Sources told Olney that Baltimore has arranged a meeting with former Florida Marlins manager Joe Girardi to discuss the job. It is expected that he will be given a chance to accept or reject the job.

Meanwhile, the same sources said Andy MacPhail has reached an agreement to be the Orioles' chief operating officer.

MacPhail and Girardi overlapped in Chicago during MacPhail's tenure as Cubs president and CEO of the Chicago Cubs, which began in 1994 and ended in 2006. Girardi, who managed the Florida Marlins in 2006, was the Cubs' catcher for two stints totaling six seasons, the last from 2000-02.

MacPhail won two World Series championships as general manager of the Minnesota Twins in 1987 and 1991.

Perlozzo was victimized by an underachieving bullpen and a punchless offense that ranks last in the AL in home runs. Baltimore was 27-27 and second in the AL East on May 31 before losing 13 of 15, including the final eight games of a 1-8 homestand that ended Sunday.

After Sunday's 6-4 loss to Arizona on Sunday, there was talk in the clubhouse of Perlozzo's imminent dismissal. Several players publicly defended him, including Kevin Millar, who called for a players-only meeting in San Diego on Tuesday.


"Sam Perlozzo doesn't throw the ball and doesn't catch the ball. We know that for sure, right? He doesn't hit the ball," Millar said. "He doesn't play. We play. And we've got to find a way to play better."

Baltimore is 122-164 under Perlozzo and finished fourth in the AL East last season. Perlozzo was the Orioles' bench coach from 2001 until replacing Mazzilli as manager.

Girardi is currently a baseball analyst for Fox and for Yankees broadcasts on the YES network. He began his playing career with the Cubs in 1989 and won World Series rings with the Yankees in 1996, 1998 and 1999.

Last offseason, Girardi indicated he was in no rush to return to managing when he turned down an offer to be the Washington Nationals' new manager, a job that went to Mets coach Manny Acta.

With one of baseball's skimpiest payrolls (approximately $14 million), Girardi managed the Marlins into wild-card contention for most of 2006 – Florida missed the playoffs with a 78-84 record – and was named NL Manager of the Year. He was unceremoniously fired days at the conclusion of the season by owner Jeffrey Loria. The two had been at odds since having a vocal argument that August.

Baltimore is seeking to end a franchise-record run of nine straight losing seasons. Since Davey Johnson took the Orioles to the playoffs in 1997, Ray Miller, Mike Hargrove, Mazzilli and Perlozzo have failed to produce so much as a .500 record.


Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine. The Associated Press contributed to this report.