<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by markie:<BR><B>why do you like Johns? If he was British he would be considered boring provincial and insular. The star spangled banner pictures are so poorly coneived it should be criminal.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Because he was the first major artist to do Pop-Art, the first to blur that line between found objects and art. The point of the flag painting was to take a readily identifiable object – the American flag – and paint it in such a way that the viewer saw it was clearly a piece of art (leaving the lines rough and the newsprint beneath the painting showing through), thus necessitating that the viewer had to look at the flag in a manner completely different from how they had viewed it before. He did the same thing with numbers and targets.<P>Same thing with those Ballantine cans. By rendering them as sculptures wasn't he changing the way people saw such objects? Wasn't he also begging the question whether everyday objects are really art? Or does that depend on how they are rendered and for what purpose? Is a Ballantine can full of ale a work of art? How about one made of plaster and conglomerate? Maybe you would say that neither are art, but I respect him for making people think about the issue.
Joe Strummer R.I.P.
Someone wiped a booger the shape of Italy on the bathroom stall door here at work. Is that art? I think he was trying to express his desire to be in a foreign destination during the holidays. Or just the use of found objects in a totally innovative way. Anyway, maybe I could take a photograph of it and they could dispaly it in some chic gallery in Chelsea.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ggw:<BR><B> Because he was…the first to blur that line between found objects and art.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>what about DuChamp or Joseph Cornell?<P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Celeste:<BR><B> what about DuChamp or Joseph Cornell?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Duchamp's objects – like the urinal and the wheel – were largely unchanged, so the question was more about context. Johns, by recreating the object with art materials, was asking about the representation of the object, not just its context. Duchamp would have taken a real flag and put it on a pedestal in a gallery, thus changing the context of the object. Whereas Johns recreated the flag in a conciously artistic style, changing the representation of the object.<P>I don't know a great deal about Cornell, but I think of him more as a surrealist and a dadaist. Didn't he take objects and make weird collages out of them? If so, I think the questions he would be asking were (like Duchamp) more about context than about representation.
Good points…and thinking about it, Cornell is more assemblage…<P>Funny, I appreciate the concepts of the Pops' work, as you've described them, but the product, the works themselves, just don't resonate with me…
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henry Dark:<BR><B>Someone wiped a booger the shape of Italy on the bathroom stall door here at work. Is that art? I think he was trying to express his desire to be in a foreign destination during the holidays. Or just the use of found objects in a totally innovative way. Anyway, maybe I could take a photograph of it and they could dispaly it in some chic gallery in Chelsea.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you write a thoughtful enough statement and schmooze the gallery, it just might happen!<P>
Eltinge's objects – like the booger on the wall – were largely unchanged, so the question was more about context. Fricker, by recreating the object with art materials, was asking about the representation of the object, not just its context. Eltinge would have taken a real crusty one and put it on a pedestal in a gallery, thus changing the context of the object. Whereas Fricker recreated the booger in a conciously artistic style, changing the representation of the object.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Celeste:<BR><B> If you write a thoughtful enough statement and schmooze the gallery, it just might happen!<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ggw:<BR><B> Because he was the first major artist to do Pop-Art</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Was he? Your art history is better than mine. Did his work really predate Warhols? Which it has similarities too.<P>I still find i difficult to warm to, damn American flag and stupid targets dont really do it for me. The other stuff I have seen of his was not that well made, I dont think from his drawings that he was very skillful. <P>Kind of like Jackson Pollack, who seems to have got lucky. To compensate for being awful at drawing he dripped paint instead.<p>[This message has been edited by markie (edited 12-27-2002).]
haven't had a chance to wade through the whole thread yet, but it was very sad to read this news….<P>a couple of thoughts<P>Joe Strummer like XTC spent most of the 90's on strike in order to get out of the recording contracts they signed in the 70's. Lets hope that Strummer stockpiled loads of demoes, etc and that they get to see the light of day. <P>Seeing Joe and the Mescalerors was an exilarating experience. It would be a shame if this talented group disbanded in the wake of Joe's death. Tymon Dogg could easily keep the Mescalerors going as a viable group, seeing as his addition to the band made the second record much better than the first.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Veranda">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kosmo:<BR><B> . Tymon Dogg could easily keep the Mescalerors going as a viable group, seeing as his addition to the band made the second record much better than the first.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>no and no. he has an interesting voice but it's annoying after a while…….<BR>lets face it he is no strummer.. <BR>and besides rock art is much better than the other one.
came up in my fb feed and was very sad
glad Kilsally isn't here to poop on this
As JS was the fuckin man and up there with the likes of Bowie and Prince IMO
glad Kilsally isn't here to poop on this
As JS was the fuckin man and up there with the likes of Bowie and Prince IMO
hey tell us stories about seeing him live!
I had a friend who saw him with the Clash at GW….
I had a friend who saw him with the Clash at GW….
I was crushed when it happened, coming out of my littler Punk Rawk end of teenage years. . . Now, I'm nostalgic. I rarely listen to the Clash or the Mescaleros (mostly just listen to NPR or Pandora), but have a soft spot for Strummer's mixing of political statement, art and style. I like to think he could have had a great late era career, especially with the right producer. Maybe I'll pull up some Mescaleros or Sandinista.
TIL (thanks Hutch)…Feb 7th is International Clash Day
DC council even approved it
This is anti-racist, anti-fear.
This is pro-solidarity, pro-unity, pro-inclusion. This is a public service announcement with GUITARS.
This is International Clash Day 2018, and all day long, all across the globe, we're celebrating music as a tool for social consciousness, and a band that made it sound so damn good.
DC council even approved it
This is anti-racist, anti-fear.
This is pro-solidarity, pro-unity, pro-inclusion. This is a public service announcement with GUITARS.
This is International Clash Day 2018, and all day long, all across the globe, we're celebrating music as a tool for social consciousness, and a band that made it sound so damn good.
#neverforget
Happy (in a way) to see this thread pop up. I'm at work and think I'll make a playlist of some Mescaleros and Clash.
I really enjoy(ed) Joe's delivery on his late era material. There was a mature sense of exasperation that to me felt warm and inviting while still questioning the state of the world and his, and as a listener our own, place in it.
I really enjoy(ed) Joe's delivery on his late era material. There was a mature sense of exasperation that to me felt warm and inviting while still questioning the state of the world and his, and as a listener our own, place in it.
happy clash day
an a pox on your houses for slagging joe and co in the stuperbowl thread
I'm just finishing this. It's very good. Basically a 50/50 split between chronicling the great UK miners strike of the early 80s and the final years of the Clash. Almost the entirety of the Clash part focuses on the years after Mick Jones was booted out, and that's a period of the band I knew very little about. And this historical stuff is super interesting as well.
HempCrete wrote:
happy clash day
an a pox on your houses for slagging joe and co in the stuperbowl thread
thanks for the reminder; and yeah: no slagging Joe! I remember first hearing the Clash as probably a 13 year old. Definitely was world-changing.