no lolla..

modern rock is "rock" music that has been created in the last decade or whatever, thus the word modern. its kinda like rap calls its "classic rock" old school rap. and its modern rock is called hip-hop.

i think the word alternative is complete bullshit now in the music seen.
whfs and everyone uses it so it can't be an alternative. unless it means the it is the alternative to the mainstream music….which music described as alternative is now re-entering the mainstream in an "evolved" form. evolved is another bullshit music terms that is just a fancy way of saying the bands new album sounds different.

i wonder if that made sense????

I'd say Alternative is now far more meaningful as marketing lingo than as a genre of music (which many of us believe it never was). Remember when the record stores had "alternative" sections? ugh.

now, alternative is used to market products that are "edgy" - young, nonconformist, but safe. As in, Mountain Dew is the alternative to cola. It's a great way to tap that 13-21 market.

(I particularly enjoyed being at a convention where the logo printed on the coffee cups said "the choice among the many alternatives." What the hell did that mean?)

Originally posted by flawd101:
modern rock is "rock" music that has been created in the last decade or whatever, thus the word modern.

I disagree. "Modern" often refers to a specific period within the arts. In visual art and literature, it's generally the 1920s -1960s as new approaches were developed (James Joyce, Virgnia Woolf, T.S. Eliot in lit; Kandinsky, Duchamp, Dali, Picasso for visual art). Post '60s is generally considered "contemporary" when you're talking time period but not style.

I buy that it's not quite so cut and dried for music, as the "modern rock" period is probably the late 80s, early 90s. ???

God knows we've debated this before and we could go on forever, but still, I think Alternative, Indie, Modern Rock do refer to particular types of music…

Can't wait to see who mocks me. Rhett's on vaca, so go for it…sorry, I love this stuff! ;)

No mocking here, but I don't really agree with some of your points.

The visual arts go back hundreds, if not 2000+ years. Relatively speaking, the 20th century is fairly modern.

As far as rock music goes, we're really only talking about 50 years. To go back 20+ years and still call something "modern rock" doesn't seem right.

"Alternative" lost all meaning in the late 80's. HFS is still calling itself "The True Alternative", while playing the same stuff I can hear on DC101 or MTV all day long. The category has become so broad, it doesn't mean anything anymore.

"Indie" is heading fast in the same direction. It no longer has anything to do with the size of your label or DIY ethic, but rather it's just another way of saying "we haven't had a big hit yet."

My whole point to this was to suggest that, while RonniStar was saying that "Alternative music has nothing new to offer," it's all in how you define it. Nowadays, if going by what HFS tells us, the "alternative" is nu-metal (Linkin Park, Incubus), mall punk (New Found Glory, Dashboard Confessional), 80's alterna-stars (Morrissey, the Cure), and what is considered modern indie rock (The Hives, Modest Mouse). Just look at their play-list.

To blame this festival on alternative rock being stale is absurd, because there was a fairly good line-up of diverse acts on this tour, who are all still producing exciting music. Even the older acts just put out critically acclaimed albums. I'm still sticking with the fact that it was too diverse for a casual summer-concert goer.

[EDIT]
Let me clarify just a bit, since I confused myself. Obviously, the tour isn't diverse in that the range of music is wide-reaching. It's still all indie/alternative/whatever. But that's part of the allure/curse of the type of music we generall listen to: it's all lumped together because it's tough to lump anywhere else. Saying indie is easier than saying anything else.

Look at most other genres of music. Most hip hop sounds fundamentally the same, as does most modern country, most R&B, most rock, etc. But drawing comparisons between Morrissey, the String Cheese Incident, Sonic Youth, Wolf Eyes, Modest Mouse, BRMC, etc., etc. is pretty damn tough. And a regular listener of HFS that hears BRMC most likely isn't goign to be down with Morrissey, who's fans aren't goign to be down with Sonic Youth, and so on.

Originally posted by Skeeter:
No mocking here, but I don't really agree with some of your points.

The visual arts go back hundreds, if not 2000+ years. Relatively speaking, the 20th century is fairly modern.

I hear you. I did note that I don't think it's quite so clear for music as for art or literature, but I do think that a term like Modern Rock gets to a genre, though what that genre is seems to blur. But in answer to Flawd's point, it does *not* mean "current" rock…

I think what we'll find for music is that in 50 years these categories will be more meaningful and clear. They'll actually refer to specific types of music and particular artists.

Could it be that Lollapalooza is actually getting back to it's roots by being a truly "alternative" festival? Bringing in lots of really good acts that the casual music fan isn't familiar with?

That's fantastic news for the more serious music fan. Unfortunately, that doesn't appeal to the masses. And you need to appeal to the masses if you want to fill 15,000 seat amphitheaters. You can't really have it both ways.

Village Voice's take on whether you'll get a chance to check out the Lollapalost acts you were hoping to see out in MD….

Where to catch your favorite bands now that the big show is canceled
Lollapalost
by Janet Kim
June 24th, 2004 5:10 PM

Evidently, indie rock royalty Morrissey, Sonic Youth, and the Pixies, in tandem with protégés PJ Harvey, Wilco, the Flaming Lips, and many others, are not enough to sell out America's amphitheaters, as Lollapalooza co-founders Marc Geiger and Perry Farrell were forced to cancel all of 2004's 31 dates. Fans expressed serious disappointment over missing one of the first truly alternative lineups in years (2003's top acts: Jane's Addiction, Audioslave, and Incubus). Last year's model brought in over $13 million, and while this year's total has yet to be disclosed, ticket sales were poor across the board.

The rest of America may deny that NYC and California are the national hubs of civilization (or is Middle America over indie rock, for better or worse?), but location proved to have an influence. Southern California's Coachella fest in May sold out both days (granted it wasn't a tour and featured many more bands than Lollapalooza). And the only place where numbers were in the black for Perry Farrell and company was Randalls Island, New York.

In spite of Lollapalooza's "reduced" ticket prices (in New York $50 for one day, $90 for both), concert organizers need to realize that while hate-metal bands and acts heavy on Clear Channel's nationwide rotation may fill venues, indie rock has always been esoteric. And the initiated, while eager to see great bands, are not willing to dump $100-plus in one night after you factor in the overpriced Italian sausage rolls, bottles of water, and beer. (Not to mention the vile Port-a-potties one has to endure after drinking aforementioned beer only to subsequently lose one's prime spot won after hours of waiting in the sun.) Add to these injustices the inconvenience of 20 out of 31 dates landing on school nights.

While Lollapalooza's website promises a full refund, Ticketmaster's policy is to refund the ticket's face value and per-ticket charges (for the facility and convenience), but not per-order charges such as shipping and order processing. A brief "investigation" (e-mailing of friends and a visit to the Flaming Lips message board) reveals that Ticketmaster charged $4 to process each order. While the number of tickets sold through Ticketmaster is unknown, one can presume the company will come out ahead.

For most would-be Lollapalooza bands, Randalls Island was to be the only summer pit stop in New York. Many are now scrambling to schedule an appearance. People in and around Chicago can shell out $55 (not including service fees) to see Moz at the House of Blues on July 17. The Big Mouth Who Struck Again has more dates forthcoming, but whether or not any of them will be in NYC (where he had five triumphant shows at the Apollo in May) remains to be seen.

Punk new wavers Le Tigre support alt-rock pioneers Sonic Youth on a tour that hits Oregon (July 15), Arizona (July 21), Nevada (July 23), Utah (July 25), Minnesota (July 28), Wisconsin (July 30), Missouri (July 31), Connecticut (August 13), and Maine (August 15).

PJ Harvey will tour America in the fall.

Modest Mouse plan on hitting New York in August but before then will visit Chico, California (July 16); Phoenix, Arizona (July 23); Bloomington, Indiana (August 19); Portsmouth, Virginia (August 19); and Austin, Texas (September 17 & 18).

The Pixies, who are finally getting their due, will be all over the place from September through December. Their NYC shows haven't been confirmed, but Frank Black Francis (as he'll refer to himself on a new solo album), Kim Deal, Joey Santiago, and Dave Lovering will be here, hopefully, for at least four dates, as at Chicago's Aragon Ballroom.

Wilco, whose latest, A Ghost Is Born, is touted as even better than Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, will be in Rhode Island on August 8 for the Newport Folk Festival. The jam band String Cheese Incident, who were going to play Jane's Addiction songs with Perry Farrell for their Colorado Lollapalooza date, continue their perpetual tour this summer. There's no NYC date yet, but they will hit California (July 16), Nevada (July 24 & 25), and North Carolina (August 21) with fellow might-have-beens Sound Tribe Sector Nine; with Michael Franti & Spearhead in Pittsburgh, PA (August 12); and with Gomez and the Polyphonic Spree in Houston, Texas (August 24).

The Flaming Lips have nothing else scheduled for the summer. Jesus and Mary Chainâ??gangers Black Rebel Motorcycle Club tour parts of the U.S. this summer before heading to Philly to start on a new album. Broken Social Scene have yet to decide their plans. NYC new wave noisemakers TV on the Radio are looking to open for a few of the Lollapalooza bands but for now have at least one date in New York this summer, the Voice's Siren festival (July 17). They'll also co-headline with lesser birds of a feather the Faint on a national tour in October. For other bands, check their websites. Since the price of one of these concerts will equal a day pass to Lollapalooza, choose wisely.

That tidbit at the end about TV on the Radio touring with The Faint is pretty interesting. Now if only one of the BRMC dates could be in DC!