RE: CT School Massacre

RatBastard wrote:

Well, we better nuke up then. 

Times have changed.  Don't you think our founding fathers would have had the sense to adapt to the times and to an evolving society?  Or were they just a bunch of flashlight collectors too?

And just for the record, it's a widely held belief that the above quote is, in fact, a misquote.  And a substantial one at that.

RatBastard wrote:

so because he said that in 1787 it applies today? (not to mention I strongly suspect they wanted the masses armed to the teeth because they didn't really have a professional army yet and were fearful the English would re-attack, etc.)

Be real man.. they also had slaves, treated women like shit, etc etc… but we changed… same goes with guns.

Times change..some things have to adapt.

I don't mean to make light of the Constitution.  But can't the pro gun lobby/population do anything to defend their point other than invoke it? 

chaz wrote:

RatBastard wrote:

Well, we better nuke up then. 

Times have changed.  Don't you think our founding fathers would have had the sense to adapt to the times and to an evolving society?  Or were they just a bunch of flashlight collectors too?

And just for the record, it's a widely held belief that the above quote it, in fact, a misquote.

Seriously! A good shooter could only get off 3 shots from a musket in a minute.
http://www.history.com/videos/musket-loading-how-fast#musket-loading-how-fast

I'd go along with Washington's dubious quote when we all go back to muskets and wooden dentures.

Today's weapons are designed for mass destruction in the most accurate and fastest time possible. More bang & blood with less thinking. Mutually assured destruction always leads to the innocent dying.

chaz wrote:
I don't mean to make light of the Constitution.  But can't the pro gun lobby/population do anything to defend their point other than invoke it? 

Buy that man a beer!

Pretty sure our founding fathers, many of whom were brilliant men who also had a very pronounced pedagogical interest, would not stand for it when people said to them "But the constitution you wrote protects the right to buy multiple weapons, semi-assault rifles, ammunition clips and carry them wherever and in some cases even concealed!" I'm supposed to believe Thomas Jefferson who went to great lengths to found what is now the University of Virginia, in the wake of the Viriginia Tech shootings would say "Hey, nothing we can do…" Or that people like John Adams, extremely learned, would say "Hey they are just crazy people! Watchagonnado bro? People is bad!" Our founding fathers were obsessed with looking at what other countries were doing, with studying history, with comparative government, with picking the best things, expanding on them, learning, PROGRESS… but yeah, they wrote the Constitution, added the Bill of Rights, and then figured "That's it! Done for eternity! Never to be bettered!"

Just fyi…the actual quote is:

"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies."

RatBastard wrote:

does anybody seriously think they're going to overthrow the government?  the arch-conservatives are certain that Obama is a muslim anti-american communist-fascist who is going to destroy society as we know it, etc etc etc… but where are the armed masses?  why aren't they "defending themselves from the government", the supposedly worse one we've ever known?  if ever there was a time for second amendment nutjobs to rise up, now is the time!

but… once again, crickets.  why?  because an armed takeover of the government is impossible today.  ask the branch davidians, crazies in cabins in montana, etc.  like slavery, armed uprisings don't fit in this day and age.  saying that you need an AK-47 to "defend yourself against the government" is a lie and a criminally negligent excuse.

this so-called justification for keeping guns is NULL AND VOID.

(p.s. note his use of the term "disciplined" in chaz's correction - as in belonging to a trained militia.  not redneck yahoos who want to own assault rifles because it makes them feel manly).

sweetcell wrote:


(p.s. note his use of the term "disciplined" in chaz's correction - as in belonging to a trained militia.  not redneck yahoos who want to own assault rifles because it makes them feel manly).

and boy was GW into discipline.. to the point he used a pseudo machine/contraption called a "horse" to punish/torture loafers, etc..

John Adams, one of the key founding fathers, thought the US form of government would evolve fairly quickly.. there is no way he though the Constitution and its Bill of Rights would be taken as sacred word not to be ever re-interpreted…

He'd be shocked, as I think would most founding fathers, to see we are still governed by it. The idea that we would interpret their words in the Constitution to mean that people should have access to multiple semi-automatic rifles, ammo clips etc would be foreign to them…

Really it is the Supreme Court that has failed us more than anything…I'm not sure why their rulings on this issue are so out of wack with common sense.

sweetcell wrote:
does anybody seriously think they're going to overthrow the government? 

Does anybody seriously think they're going to change ratbastard's mind?

And more importantly, does it matter?

I hope each of you puts as much effort into changing the minds of Federally elected officials.  All the power is in their hands right now…

vansmack wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
does anybody seriously think they're going to overthrow the government? 

Does anybody seriously think they're going to change ratbastard's mind?

And more importantly, does it matter?

I hope each of you puts as much effort into changing the minds of Federally elected officials.  All the power is in their hands right now…

Because Newtown happened dude and its on everyone's mind. It is not so easy to shake it off, dig? Having the conversation is a good idea..

I actually think the effort should be focused on creating a lobby/interest group to advocate for gun control..

10 million people * 100  = $1 billion

we need a group like the NRA to lobby for gun control…. we can write our senators til we're blue in the face but if they know the NRA is going to go after them hard when they're up for reelection I don't see much happening..

vansmack wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
does anybody seriously think they're going to overthrow the government? 

Does anybody seriously think they're going to change ratbastard's mind?

And more importantly, does it matter?

I hope each of you puts as much effort into changing the minds of Federally elected officials.  All the power is in their hands right now…

does ratbastard really believe what he is saying or is he trolling? 

Is this what they used to call "fuzzy math"?

10 million people * 100 million = $1 billion

vansmack wrote:
Don't delete on FB.  Just block their feed from your timeline, that way if you have to go back and see their timeline, you can.  Plus they won't try to re-add you as a friend later and thus put you in an awkward spot…

i doubt i would want to see his timeline.  Actually maybe I can just block everyone.  I do like to post photos on facebook but most people just post annoying things.  I did block this women's feed who kept posting about how she can't believe how stupid everyone in this state (MD) is that they elected Obama.  I didn't vote for Obama but calling everyone stupid I found offensive.  Plus her reasons were like all my taxes are going to pay for people (minority reference) don't have to work.  I am sure she doesn't pay very much in taxes.  Very annoying.

James wrote:
Is this what they used to call "fuzzy math"?

10 million people * 100 million = $1 billion

i think he meant 100 dollars.  I doubt he could find 10 million people that had 100 million to give away. 

The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again," the group said. It plans to hold "<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/politics/nra-silence-regrouping/index.html?hpt=hp_c3">a major news conference</a>" on Friday and both their Facebook and Twitter presences are active again.

Thanx

yeah 100$ * 10 million people = $1 billion… I hope.

a nice launchpad for a group to target pro gun advocates and support gun control advocates


Only way to do anything

grateful wrote:
The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again,&quot; the group said. It plans to hold &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/politics/nra-silence-regrouping/index.html?hpt=hp_c3&quot;&gt;a major news conference&lt;/a&gt;&quot; on Friday and both their Facebook and Twitter presences are active again.

This is titillating but I wouldn't hold your breath. 
This from the group that literally stuck their heads in the sand for days after it happened.  Fuck the NRA.

this is near where i live . . . the ass was trying to prove some point.  dumb ass.

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/12/local-man-arrested-at-school-with-board-labeled-high-powered-rife.php

walkonby wrote:
this is near where i live . . . the ass was trying to prove some point.&nbsp; dumb ass.

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/12/local-man-arrested-at-school-with-board-labeled-high-powered-rife.php

Wait wait wait a minute…his right to carry that sign into the school is protected by The Constitution.  That absolves him of any duty to decency, respect or common sense.