Nightclub Bill Seeks to Protect Underage Guests, and D.C

Actually, I have nothing against Betty. While I may not agree with her opinions all the time, I do admire her spunk and passion, and I could do a lot worse than having a daughter grow up to be like her (or her as she portrays herself on the board). My hope is that I have a daughter who is passionate about her interests, but also respects the wishes and limits imposed by her loving parents. My concern as a parent would be for the safety of my child, as well as for my child getting enough sleep. The safety concern would be more the issue of being on the streets late at night than it would be in the concert venue itself. When shows end on weekdays beyond midnight, that's a bit too late for a child to be staying out when they have to be at school and on the ball the next day at 7:30.

And I agree that it's not the politicians who should be laying down the law. It's the parents who should be. But we're now in a society where parents feel like their most important role is to be their child's friend rather than their child's parent. Where it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

Originally posted by le sonick:
middle class upstate new york farmboy, meet rich spoiled dc suburbanite girl

now shake hands and make up already.

:roll:

man, the days when we as 16 year olds could play the 930 club, and the 930 club unwittingly gave us booze as they did for any other rockstars, except we were "straight edge" and thus gave our complimentary booze to the audience, thus pissing off the staph, appear gone for good…

in all seriousness, it would be nice if the approach DC took would be to try harder to make go-go, where one finds many of the problems, safe for its large African-American audience rather than restricting kids. Go-go is as much an outlet for the city's youth as any other form of music, it's a hallowed DC tradition, and there is nothing inherently violent about it.

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

You've got nothing to worry about on that score….

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Actually, I have nothing against Betty. While I may not agree with her opinions all the time, I do admire her spunk and passion, and I could do a lot worse than having a daughter grow up to be like her (or her as she portrays herself on the board). My hope is that I have a daughter who is passionate about her interests, but also respects the wishes and limits imposed by her loving parents. My concern as a parent would be for the safety of my child, as well as for my child getting enough sleep. The safety concern would be more the issue of being on the streets late at night than it would be in the concert venue itself. When shows end on weekdays beyond midnight, that's a bit too late for a child to be staying out when they have to be at school and on the ball the next day at 7:30.

And I agree that it's not the politicians who should be laying down the law. It's the parents who should be. But we're now in a society where parents feel like their most important role is to be their child's friend rather than their child's parent. Where it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

Originally posted by le sonick:
middle class upstate new york farmboy, meet rich spoiled dc suburbanite girl

now shake hands and make up already.

:roll:

Do you think I go to shows on school nights?
Because I'm not allowed to. I have never been allowed to. Not even early shows, not even to go see an opener and be home by 8pm.
It has only happened three times in history. Two of those three were because my parents told me I could go if I got straight A's, and so I did.
A few weeks ago I was put on the goddamn guest list for a sold out show of one of my favorite bands, and my mom STILL wouldn't let me go because it was on a weeknight. It wasn't the first time. My parents are hardly taking the "cool" route.

My dad rarely says yes to a show. My mom lets me go sometimes, because she knows I work hard, she knows it is important to me, and she trusts me.
Do you know I haven't been to the Black Cat since last June? And I have only been to 9:30 once since last June, and that was only for a two hour soundcheck in the afternoon. They weren't letting me go to stuff because I had the SAT's to deal with, and then I was completely banned from shows because of the shooting. It's just now that I might be allowed to start going to stuff again.

But I don't know where you got this impression of me that I was running around freely all over U Street at four in the morning. My parents are extremely authoritarian. And when I go to a show, I get dropped off at the door and picked up at the door.

Sounds like you have sensible parents who set sensible limits.

Originally posted by you be betty:

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Actually, I have nothing against Betty. While I may not agree with her opinions all the time, I do admire her spunk and passion, and I could do a lot worse than having a daughter grow up to be like her (or her as she portrays herself on the board). My hope is that I have a daughter who is passionate about her interests, but also respects the wishes and limits imposed by her loving parents. My concern as a parent would be for the safety of my child, as well as for my child getting enough sleep. The safety concern would be more the issue of being on the streets late at night than it would be in the concert venue itself. When shows end on weekdays beyond midnight, that's a bit too late for a child to be staying out when they have to be at school and on the ball the next day at 7:30.

And I agree that it's not the politicians who should be laying down the law. It's the parents who should be. But we're now in a society where parents feel like their most important role is to be their child's friend rather than their child's parent. Where it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

Originally posted by le sonick:
middle class upstate new york farmboy, meet rich spoiled dc suburbanite girl

now shake hands and make up already.

:roll:

Do you think I go to shows on school nights?
Because I'm not allowed to. I have never been allowed to. Not even early shows, not even to go see an opener and be home by 8pm.
It has only happened three times in history. Two of those three were because my parents told me I could go if I got straight A's, and so I did.
A few weeks ago I was put on the goddamn guest list for a sold out show of one of my favorite bands, and my mom STILL wouldn't let me go because it was on a weeknight. It wasn't the first time. My parents are hardly taking the "cool" route.

My dad rarely says yes to a show. My mom lets me go sometimes, because she knows I work hard, she knows it is important to me, and she trusts me.
Do you know I haven't been to the Black Cat since last June? And I have only been to 9:30 once since last June, and that was only for a two hour soundcheck in the afternoon. They weren't letting me go to stuff because I had the SAT's to deal with, and then I was completely banned from shows because of the shooting. It's just now that I might be allowed to start going to stuff again.

But I don't know where you got this impression of me that I was running around freely all over U Street at four in the morning. My parents are extremely authoritarian. And when I go to a show, I get dropped off at the door and picked up at the door.

If only I'd learn to like post-punk singers, insread of calling it what it is, "crap". :D

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

You've got nothing to worry about on that score….

…and that's the point I was trying to make all along.

I am a responsible kid. I know my limits. My parents are REALLY strict. But I can still go out to a show and be perfectly safe and have a good time. Why take that away from me?

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Sounds like you have sensible parents who set sensible limits.

Originally posted by you be betty:

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Actually, I have nothing against Betty. While I may not agree with her opinions all the time, I do admire her spunk and passion, and I could do a lot worse than having a daughter grow up to be like her (or her as she portrays herself on the board). My hope is that I have a daughter who is passionate about her interests, but also respects the wishes and limits imposed by her loving parents. My concern as a parent would be for the safety of my child, as well as for my child getting enough sleep. The safety concern would be more the issue of being on the streets late at night than it would be in the concert venue itself. When shows end on weekdays beyond midnight, that's a bit too late for a child to be staying out when they have to be at school and on the ball the next day at 7:30.

And I agree that it's not the politicians who should be laying down the law. It's the parents who should be. But we're now in a society where parents feel like their most important role is to be their child's friend rather than their child's parent. Where it's all about being the coolest mom and dad.

Originally posted by le sonick:
middle class upstate new york farmboy, meet rich spoiled dc suburbanite girl

now shake hands and make up already.

:roll:

Do you think I go to shows on school nights?
Because I'm not allowed to. I have never been allowed to. Not even early shows, not even to go see an opener and be home by 8pm.
It has only happened three times in history. Two of those three were because my parents told me I could go if I got straight A's, and so I did.
A few weeks ago I was put on the goddamn guest list for a sold out show of one of my favorite bands, and my mom STILL wouldn't let me go because it was on a weeknight. It wasn't the first time. My parents are hardly taking the "cool" route.

My dad rarely says yes to a show. My mom lets me go sometimes, because she knows I work hard, she knows it is important to me, and she trusts me.
Do you know I haven't been to the Black Cat since last June? And I have only been to 9:30 once since last June, and that was only for a two hour soundcheck in the afternoon. They weren't letting me go to stuff because I had the SAT's to deal with, and then I was completely banned from shows because of the shooting. It's just now that I might be allowed to start going to stuff again.

But I don't know where you got this impression of me that I was running around freely all over U Street at four in the morning. My parents are extremely authoritarian. And when I go to a show, I get dropped off at the door and picked up at the door.

What Bede said.

You're responsible, but in the point of fairness you're being affected by decisions regarding everyone of your age….many of whom may not be as responsible, or have parents who are as responsible.

And my point is that even if they do take this away from you, you've got a lot of other opportunities here in the DC area that you can take advantage of. A year or two more without shows wouldn't be the end of the world.

By the way, don't they have all ages, non-alcoholic shows anywhere? I went to those all the time in college, even when I was over 21.

And from a totally selfish concert consumer standpoint, I sometimes like having a place to hang out with people who are all adults (though they may not always act like it), free of children. That's one of the reasons I used to like Iota so much, though the smoke I can do without. That's not because I dislike kids, it's just sometimes nice to be somewhere where their not around. You probably feel the same way about adults.

Originally posted by you be betty:
…and that's the point I was trying to make all along.

I am a responsible kid. I know my limits. My parents are REALLY strict. But I can still go out to a show and be perfectly safe and have a good time. Why take that away from me?

[.

[/qb] [/QB]

I've been to the 9:30 Club more than 200 times (if you include the F Street location) and never been involved in an incident or seen any violence. I've seen underage drinkers thrown out, though. Okay, some pretty intense moshing, but staff has monitored to make sure it stayed contained.

Ditto to Black Cat. I think I've probably been to 100 shows there…

300 shows and haven't seen one incidence of violence? You must be busy watching the bands or something. I bet thatguy could verify that there are at least occasional incidents of a physical nature requiring removal from the club.

Originally posted by Bags:
I've been to the 9:30 Club more than 200 times (if you include the F Street location) and never been involved in an incident or seen any violence. I've seen underage drinkers thrown out, though. Okay, some pretty intense moshing, but staff has monitored to make sure it stayed contained.

Ditto to Black Cat. I think I've probably been to 100 shows there…

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
however, graham can't simply introduce a bill limiting the ability of kids to go to go-go clubs (even though I think those are supposed to be 18+, perhaps enforcing a law already on the books would be a better option, no?) and their like because that would be racist since it would single out a particular type of establishment that caters to a particular race, even though that's where the violence occurs. instead, he has to make the bill constitutional, and apply it evenly across everyone. we wouldn't want our government to do racial profiling, now would we?

This really is the pickle, isn't it? You can't single out certain types of clubs, though I think it's likely that there are problems seen at certain types of venues and clubs that you might not see at 9:30, for instance.

Though, I don't want to take away from the stellar job 9:30 does with their staff and enforcing house rules.

But it would be the end of the world because a lot of my life revolves around it. A lot of other people would be devastated. Even young adults who aren't as regular of concertgoers as I am still deserve to go to shows.

And I am sorry you feel that way, but if you want to hang out somewhere without kids, then don't hang out at 9:30 or Black Cat. The 9:30 club is "All ages, all the time." The Black Cat is all ages. They have been this way for years. There are plenty of other places you can go without teenagers to see live music, but there are few places we can go to see live music. Don't take that away from us.

You know, we are fully capable of carrying on conversations with you "adults" and being friends with you and coexisting. I always have. Area artists tell me all the time that all-ages shows are much more fun than those which are restricted. Age is not an issue for many people. But if it is, you can't expect to impose your discomfort on everyone else…

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
What Bede said.

You're responsible, but in the point of fairness you're being affected by decisions regarding everyone of your age….many of whom may not be as responsible, or have parents who are as responsible.

And my point is that even if they do take this away from you, you've got a lot of other opportunities here in the DC area that you can take advantage of. A year or two more without shows wouldn't be the end of the world.

By the way, don't they have all ages, non-alcoholic shows anywhere? I went to those all the time in college, even when I was over 21.

And from a totally selfish concert consumer standpoint, I sometimes like having a place to hang out with people who are all adults (though they may not always act like it), free of children. That's one of the reasons I used to like Iota so much, though the smoke I can do without. That's not because I dislike kids, it's just sometimes nice to be somewhere where their not around. You probably feel the same way about adults.

Originally posted by you be betty:
…and that's the point I was trying to make all along.

I am a responsible kid. I know my limits. My parents are REALLY strict. But I can still go out to a show and be perfectly safe and have a good time. Why take that away from me?

[.

[/QB] [/QB]

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
I bet thatguy could verify that there are at least occasional incidents of a physical nature requiring removal from the club.

I'm sure there is. And I admit I'm particularly 'clueless' to problems around me. But, I think one reason I've never seeen anything is that the club handles situations so quickly and almost invisibly, that even an incident rarely spills beyond the person instigating.

Originally posted by Bags:
I've been to the 9:30 Club more than 200 times (if you include the F Street location) and never been involved in an incident or seen any violence. I've seen underage drinkers thrown out, though. Okay, some pretty intense moshing, but staff has monitored to make sure it stayed contained.

Ditto to Black Cat. I think I've probably been to 100 shows there…

Agreed. The only times I have ever been remotely harassed (and it wasn't even harassment, it was more "Damn girl, you fine!" and whistles, which happens in Bethesda, too) have been incidents taking place down the street or around the corner from the club. I have never experienced any trouble while in line for a show or inside the club.

Just an aside, but when I was much younger people used to call me "Nightclub Bill".


"There goes old Nightclub Bill. I wonder where he's heading? God, I admire that dude…"

Originally posted by Dupek Chakra:
Just an aside, but when I was much younger people used to call me "Nightclub Bill".


"There goes old Nightclub Bill. I wonder where he's heading. God, I admire that dude…"

we did the "nightclub bill" joke a page and a half ago man! dont wear it out!

betty,

this is not about you and your friends. i agree, the council is being very short-sighted and taking away opportunities from minors. 930 club, black cat and other responsible establishments do what it takes to ensure the safety of those in the club. HOWEVER, there are many other establishments that are not so thorough in their pursuit of safety. because of those establishments, the d.c. council figured they must do something.

now, like i said before, you can argue that enforcing laws already on the books would be a much better way to go, but i don't know if that will make it any safer. i don't think i've read anywhere that says the impetus behind this move is geared at violence towards or amongst indie kids at black cat or 930 club, but violence does tend to occur at certain establishments. i agree with doom, instead of cutting everyone off, it would seem to make more sense for d.c. to work within the affected areas to make them safer.

the world is not bethesda or the suburbs. rightly or wrongly, there is trouble out there, even if you have not faced it. i know you know all that, and am glad that you are thinking about this issue. i am by no means telling you to give up and stop speaking out on this issue, but at the same time you have to be pragmatic about it.

Originally posted by you be betty:
it was more "Damn girl, you fine!" and whistles, which happens in Bethesda, too) have been incidents taking place down the street or around the corner from the club. I have never experienced any trouble while in line for a show or inside the club.

are you sure those weren't 9:30 boardies? ;)

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
300 shows and haven't seen one incidence of violence? You must be busy watching the bands or something. I bet thatguy could verify that there are at least occasional incidents of a physical nature requiring removal from the club.

acts of physical violence are rare at the club (if you don't count pit/moshing activity that is allowed within certain situations and with certain restrictions). depending on your musical tastes, it would be easy to go through 300 shows over several years without seeing an act of violence at the club.

based on my observations over the last decade or so, with no statistical claims whatsoever:

A. most physically violent incidents at the club can be attributed to one root cause: alcohol and/or drug use.

2. most physically violent incidents at the club involve adults.

c. most physically violent incidents involve two parties equally participating. there are very few "innocent victims" when you get down to the details.

IV. most physically violent incidents can be avoided by paying careful attention and through early intervention by the staph.

my take on the underage thing:

i went to shows when i was underage. a lot of shows. i grew up during the hair metal/arena rock era, and i went to shows at the cap centre and similar places. as i got older and my tastes changed, i started going to punk and heavier shows at the old club and similar places. i saw way more violence and trouble at those arena shows than i did at the clubs.

i went to shows on school nights occasionally, but only because my grades and performance were so good that my parents couldn't question the impact on my schooling. i went to shows with appropriate supervison, whether it was a parent, my older sister and her boyfriend, or some other responsible adult. in the proper circumstances underage concertgoing can be a harmless diversion, just like any of the hundreds of other things i did to keep myself entertained as a kid. hell, it might even have a positve impact on some people.

i wouldn't be doing what i'm doing now if i didn't have the oppportunity to experience the old club as a minor. the ability to see shows when i was young definitely had a positive effect on my life. i think it's a horrible idea to keep underage kids out of clubs across the board, even though my job would probably be a lot easier if they did.

if the clubs have their act together, provide adequate security, and use some simple common sense, there is no reason that underagers can't coexist with adults in an entertainment setting. children are allowed in many entertainment venues that serve alcohol to adults, but you don't hear anyone trying to keep them out of the theater or sporting events. i'd wager that there are more violent incidents at sporting events than at concerts.

there is no reason for a minor to be in a bar, but there is no reason for a minor not to be in a concert venue that happens to serve alcohol if that venue is responsible for the safety of all of its patrons, regardless of their age.

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
you are right. . .however, graham can't simply introduce a bill limiting the ability of kids to go to go-go clubs (even though I think those are supposed to be 18+, perhaps enforcing a law already on the books would be a better option, no?) and their like because that would be racist since it would single out a particular type of establishment that caters to a particular race, even though that's where the violence occurs. instead, he has to make the bill constitutional, and apply it evenly across everyone. we wouldn't want our government to do racial profiling, now would we?

I book quite a bit of shows at Club Lime in SW which on the very same nights will also have a Go-Go going on the lower level with Backyard Band, Rare Essence, etc. playing every week. They've got uniformed officers just hanging outside and sometimes will come in to see what's up (ie listen to the bands on either level.) Club security is doing their job inside checking IDs and patrolling the crowd. There's not been one problem between the two parties with inappropriate comments or altercations and I really don't think there ever will be a problem because the club has done everything right and what they're suppose to do.

The problem will never be underage kids or whatever type of crowd a venue caters to. The problem is with a alcohol license holder (club owner) trying to make a quick buck and being irresponsible. Locking up a club owner will send a big wake up call to others as well as the doorman checking IDs. Lock them up too! Don't like it? Obviously you're not doing your job right with checking IDs properly.

If the correct measures are in place, you will not have any problems that the ABC or City Council could shut you down over. The problem is this council specifically Graham is trying to cover their asses for letting a murder, underage or not, happen in an unsafe environment when they should have closed the club months prior to the underage death. There's no hiding the facts.

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