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Is the RIAA suing you?

kosmo
Joined: September 23, 1999 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 16329
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:34 PM UTC #
ggw is probably a bit more verse in if this would be covered by "fair use" or not… eff and other organizations are stepping on a lobbying for the p2p users like yourself. is downloading a song or two really any different than getting a mix cd or tape from a friend? making a mix cd is something which apple touts as one of the top uses of thier machines.

all of this shows how instead of fighting new technology which the record always does… cassettes, cdrs etc they should be adapting to them. it clear by the popularity of p2p systems that people want and have embraced a new method of distribution. yet the record industry wants to stick to the traditional method of physical product.

it's ironic that the record industry chooses to fight a system which has already been developed, thus saving to having fund a new distro system. and there is no need to deploy new infrastructure and pay of bandwidth, it's already be payed for via isp fees, again saving money. yet it's make more business sense to pay people to track down file sharers and flood the p2p with fake mp3s.

i'm all for paying for the digital rights to an artists music, but i will be damned if i'm going to pay almost as much for them as i would for a physical cd or record. especially if i also choose to buy the cd after auditioning the digital version. which is why i find itunes and buymusic.com laughable.

record companies need to establish record pools using a p2p system. let us serious music buyers pay for and get access to music especially for those artists who we want to check out based on a review or for a record that may only be released in uk for instance.

rant off
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:34 PM UTC #
Originally posted by paige:


i have never downloaded entire albums and burned them onto cds. when i download music, i stop sharing it,

Thanks for the tip..I'll go into a jewellers tonight and steal myself my favorite Omega watch, not everything in the store. I won't let anyone else borrow the watch so if I get caught I can tell them paige said it was okay.
paige
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Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:39 PM UTC #
Originally posted by mankie:
Thanks for the tip..I'll go into a jewellers tonight and steal myself my favorite Omega watch, not everything in the store. I won't let anyone else borrow the watch so if I get caught I can tell them paige said it was okay.
good analogy. :roll:

kosmo really hit the nail on the head of what i think… remember when betamax was popular? then the whole switchover to vhs happened? then dvd? the technology and the industry are changing… and although this seems like a much more drastic progression, the riaa is wasting their money and energy trying to fight something that could prove to be their most valuable ally. the record industry is already failing as it is.. they should be doing whatever they can to be altruistic to the listeners rather than punish them for every little song they've downloaded.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:48 PM UTC #
Originally posted by myuman:
It's not stealing for the same reason taping Seinfeld on my VHS is legal or allowing my father to "borrow" my Celine Dion collection.
Wrong. Fair-use covers you for transferring music from your CD to a tape or to an mp3 but doesn't cover distribution to 12,000,000 kazaa users.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Originally posted by myuman:
And remember, the media was purchased.
What media? You only own the shiny plastic disc, not the music on it. That belongs to the copyright holder.

Originally posted by myuman:
I'm not hacking into anyone else computer unknowingly. The common technology supports this. And remember, it does cost an awful amount of money to fileshare: computer, internet provider, blank discs, and most importantly… time. We don't ride horses to work anymore because the common technology allows us not to.
So anything that is technologically possible cannot be illegal?

You may not be hacking into someone else's computer, but the theft is from the copyright holder, not from piMpKraCKer69@kazaa.com who is giving you the file.

Originally posted by myuman:
This is a recording industry dilemma. Not a "is it stealing or not" personal dilemma. I don't think any of this would be a problem in the slightest if CD's were $6. The people making money in music in the year 2003 would dwarf the people making money in 1973 at those prices…. $15 dollars plus is corporate greed and consumers are realizing there is an easier way. I've said it many times before, $10 is my "fence price". I like the album artwork, case, track listing (except Sigur Ros), and high quality recording. But above this price, I can sacrifice these by filesharing.
My "fence" price for a Maserati is $12,500. If they won't sell it to me at that price then I am justified in stealing it. I'm a revolutionary against the greedy corporate automotive behemoths – I'm like Che Guevara and Robin Hood all wrapped up in one. Or maybe I'm just a common thief who thinks he can get away with it.
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:55 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:


– I'm like Che Guevara and Robin Hood all wrapped up in one.


A beret and green tights…hmmmmm, I wouldn't let Rhett see you in that little number, he might not be able to control his actions, because you know how he just oozes testosterone being the macho-man that he is and all.
kosmo
Joined: September 23, 1999 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 16329
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 02:59 PM UTC #
Originally posted by paige:


kosmo really hit the nail on the head of what i think… remember when betamax was popular? then the whole switchover to vhs happened? then dvd?
this is an example of where the movie industry was first against the vcr technology, but later embraced when they realized they could make even more money buy selling the movie to the consumer. also give them props for devolping the dvd a harder to copy format than tape and cd. and pricing them so the consumer will buy them when they get released on dvd.
sonickteam2
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Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 04:35 PM UTC #
I will put my 3 cents in:

First off, most of what i download is on emusic.com or insound.com which is legal. otherwise I download the new "radio" songs, from college radio playlists and such. But I usually just DL the singles or more from bands that have shows coming up. This downloading is never in place of a CD and i share only to people who contact me on filesharing networks.
I believe everyone is entitled to preview the music before they drop $12-$17 on a CD, and if i love what I hear I will buy the CD (case in point Mars Volta, yesterday). I dont see whats wrong with that really, I mean I suppose i could go to the record store and spend hours making the clerk open up 20 new CDs so i can listen to them, but that shit gets on my nerves when people do that.
And who really wants to listen to the radio ALL DAY long just to hear a couple new songs they are interested in? not me.
The point is, I buy 5-10 CDs a month and i drop $50 a month on shows, not to mention bar tabs that keep these venues making good money.
Do i feel like i am ripping the RIAA off….no, not a chance. But i may be in the minority.
mankie
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 04:40 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I will put my 3 cents in:

First off, most of what i download is on emusic.com or insound.com which is legal. otherwise I download the new "radio" songs, from college radio playlists and such. But I usually just DL the singles or more from bands that have shows coming up. This downloading is never in place of a CD and i share only to people who contact me on filesharing networks.
I believe everyone is entitled to preview the music before they drop $12-$17 on a CD, and if i love what I hear I will buy the CD (case in point Mars Volta, yesterday). I dont see whats wrong with that really, I mean I suppose i could go to the record store and spend hours making the clerk open up 20 new CDs so i can listen to them, but that shit gets on my nerves when people do that.
And who really wants to listen to the radio ALL DAY long just to hear a couple new songs they are interested in? not me.
The point is, I buy 5-10 CDs a month and i drop $50 a month on shows, not to mention bar tabs that keep these venues making good money.
Do i feel like i am ripping the RIAA off….no, not a chance. But i may be in the minority.
If you go to Barns and Noble you can scan ANY cd in the store and hear a short peice of every song on the album…you're still a thief, sorry I meant sharer… :roll:
mjnova
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Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 05:03 PM UTC #
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Originally posted by paige:


kosmo really hit the nail on the head of what i think… remember when betamax was popular? then the whole switchover to vhs happened? then dvd?
this is an example of where the movie industry was first against the vcr technology, but later embraced when they realized they could make even more money buy selling the movie to the consumer. also give them props for devolping the dvd a harder to copy format than tape and cd. and pricing them so the consumer will buy them when they get released on dvd.
When Napster came along, the RIAA had a choice. Do wanna compete, bring out a better product and make a lot of money, and then sue them to get them out of business. Or should you just sue them and hope everyone pretends like this little theft thing didn't happen.

I don't condone stealing, but they blew their chance, and now people have become accustomed to getting music for free.

There aren't any good free resourses to hear music before you buy it, and hence I used to download a few tracks from artists before buying their albums.

If iTunes for example, let the artists pick say 2 or 3 tracks on the album, as the "singles" regardless of length and comercialness and let folks download those free of charge, I think that would offer a good free channel for hearing music, and then if you liked it, you could download the album.
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? July 31, 2003 at 05:55 PM UTC #
Originally posted by RatBastard:
OK maybe I am in the minority here but I am on the side if the RIAA and the artists. Bottom line is that stealing ain't right. If I have to explain it any further than that then there is no point in me wasting my breath. Its my stand, it may not be popular, but I am standing by it.

RB
But it's not stealing…It's sharing!
paige
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 12:39 PM UTC #
stabbing hookers is the best …..
myuman
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Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 01:23 PM UTC #
Originally posted by mankie:
Thanks for the tip..I'll go into a jewellers tonight and steal myself my favorite Omega watch, not everything in the store. I won't let anyone else borrow the watch so if I get caught I can tell them paige said it was okay.
This is a very simplistic (and ignorant if you ask me) analogy to use. How about this one. I come up with a great idea to present to my company at the next board meeting, the only problem is, I preview it with a couple of my friends before hand. Come board meeting time, my boss opens the meeting with my idea. I ask him about it, he claims he was working with it for months. I happen to be in great standing with several lawyers and judges in the area, as well as some heavy politicians. I convince them that "stealing" my ideas before I can cash in on them is a felony. Laws then blossom condemming stealing my ideas. I choose to disregard the fact that the incident I'm drawing from could have been averted and/or used to my advantage.

Or closer yet. You find the before mentioned Omega watch not in a jewerly store (because breaking into that IS a crime) but sitting on the curb across the street. You know full well that it was dropped/left behind in the relocation process from a vehicle to the store. Mind you, the store still "owns" the watch (being the last that actually paid for it).

Lastly… the U.S. govt. long ago abandoned the process of constructing coined money with materials that cost more than the value in which the coin represents. Of course people were "taking them out of circulation". The Govt. got smart and constructed them out of "less pricey" materials to take away the motivation.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 01:41 PM UTC #
Here's an example – Rather than giving away someone elses property by "sharing" it online with several million others, you simply make 3,000,000 copies of somebody else's CD or software and then distribute it for free to whoever wants it. Not a crime?

You can try to couch your thievery in tirades about how the record industry is evil or could have "handled things better," but none of that changes the fact that you are a thief.

Here's a question for you to ponder: Do you think that the record industry treats the artists well? How do you treat the artist any better when you steal the fruits of his labor and give it away without his permission?
paige
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Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 01:42 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Here's an example – Rather than giving away someone elses property by "sharing" it online with several million others, you simply make 3,000,000 copies of somebody else's CD or software and then distribute it for free to whoever wants it. Not a crime?

You can try to couch your thievery in tirades about how the record industry is evil or could have "handled things better," but none of that changes the fact that you are a thief.

Here's a question for you to ponder: Do you think that the record industry treats the artists well? How do you treat the artist any better when you steal the fruits of his labor and give it away without his permission?
ggw have you ever, ever, ever, downloaded even one song in your entire life? i'm just curious.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 01:55 PM UTC #
Originally posted by paige:
ggw have you ever, ever, ever, downloaded even one song in your entire life? i'm just curious.
Sure. I had Napster and kazaa. Now I just stick to Insound, band websites, label sites, etc… If I hear about a band and want to listen to them, I don't usually have a problem finding a legal mp3.

I'm not telling you not to download – that's between you and your conscience. I just think people ought to give up the fallacious rationalizations concerning why stealing isn't really stealing. If somebody wants to steal, that's their choice, but they ought to have the cojones to admit that it's stealing.
paige
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 01:58 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Sure. I had Napster and kazaa. Now I just stick to Insound, band websites, label sites, etc… If I hear about a band and want to listen to them, I don't usually have a problem finding a legal mp3.

I'm not telling you not to download – that's between you and your conscience. I just think people ought to give up the fallacious rationalizations concerning why stealing isn't really stealing. If somebody wants to steal, that's their choice, but they ought to have the cojones to admit that it's stealing.
ok… i see your point. it's just that you sounded as though you were superhuman and had completely escaped the lure of downloading (illegally). i think that people (especially younger kids) don't know about the legal mp3 sites and other resources that allow them to get music without having to feel guilty. however, it is also hard to convince people to pay for music (iTunes) when there are myriads of songs and other media out there for free. it may not be right, but that doesn't always cross people's minds.
mjnova
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 02:13 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggw™:
Originally posted by paige:
ggw have you ever, ever, ever, downloaded even one song in your entire life? i'm just curious.
Sure. I had Napster and kazaa. Now I just stick to Insound, band websites, label sites, etc… If I hear about a band and want to listen to them, I don't usually have a problem finding a legal mp3.

I'm not telling you not to download – that's between you and your conscience. I just think people ought to give up the fallacious rationalizations concerning why stealing isn't really stealing. If somebody wants to steal, that's their choice, but they ought to have the cojones to admit that it's stealing.
Yes it's stealing, that doesn't change the fact that the RIAA blew it. And anyway, am I going to find the Daryl Strawberry classic "Chocolate Strawberry" in a record store? Am I gonna hear say Gang of Four or Wire or Mission of Birma on the radio? I buy obscene amounts of CDs and attend loads of concerts. Thats where I burn [pun intended] most of my disposable income. My concience is clean. The guilt trip doesn't work on me, or anyone else who actually cares enough about music to still buy albums.
thirsty moore
Joined: January 11, 2000 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 6131
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 02:15 PM UTC #
One of the RIAA's main points during this whole ordeal is that it is impossible to compete with free. The music industry heads aren't idiots, they're just bad at grasping onto trends.

Originally posted by paige:
however, it is also hard to convince people to pay for music (iTunes) when there are myriads of songs and other media out there for free. it may not be right, but that doesn't always cross people's minds.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Is the RIAA suing you? August 01, 2003 at 02:19 PM UTC #
I think people have a hard time realizing that "the music industry is evil" is not related to "downloading and distributing somebody else's copyrighted property is okay."

The first statement is true; the second is false. People seem to fall into the fallacy of believing that since the first statement is true, then that makes the second one true as well.

However, part of why the music industry is evil is that they screw the artists. If I steal from the artist, I'm really no better than the industry.
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