iphone

the cell-enabled ipad also keeps a log of its location data and is backup on the user's computer. 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-prompts-privacy-fears
http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/20/apple-recording-storing-gps-position-of-iphone-3g-ipad-users-video/

This is old news. Well, relatively speaking. As old as the ipad and almost as old as the iPhone. It's not just Apple products either doing way too much tracking and snooping. Generally, it's all 'smart' phones. This all came in during the Clinton administration when he signed some kind of paperwork to install the clipper chip into any and everything technological. It's Big Brother's backdoor into your private life.

In other intrusive, anti 4th amendment and unconstitutional news:
Mich. Cops Can Now Steal Your Cell Phone Data ? ?Without the Owner Knowing?

Also, Google keeps all of your searches for, I think, up to 6 months. Just heard something this week that Yahoo just changed their policy on searches. If I remember correctly, they had been saving them for 30 days but have since upped it to 90 days.

There's much, much more and it's all creepy as hell!

*Before any of you try tearing this apart because of the sites themselves, I know nothing about any of them other than Newsmax. I was just very familiar with the dirt and only did a quick search and linked up something quick and easy. You can do your own in-depth research if you choose. Oh, and every administration has been deep in shit involved in these things. It just took them all this time to get it where it is today. As I said, all old news but sadly, finally a reality.

Look at it this way – nothing in life is free.   Google wouldn't provide the amazing functionality of its search and gmail and all the rest without getting something in return, right?     And surely it hasn't come out of nowhere to be a bigger force than Microsoft just by selling lots of little ads?     One of the founders of Google is quoted as saying "we know how you think."    It's entirely in their interest to make billions off that ability, and ridiculous to assume they wouldn't.    And it's also in everyone's power to choose whether to avail themselves of Google's conveniences, or not.

And cell phones have been miniature tracking devices since they were invented in the 80s.   The only thing that's new about this is the precision is greatly enhanced (down to GPS coordinates instead of cell towers), and the fact that the file is stored on *your* phone.     But if a telco wanted to find you they've always been able to.

So, bloggers are going to vent indignantly and righteously about this.  But the basic fact is nothing new – privacy for the most part is given up voluntarily, and if you really care about it, you've got to live off the grid. 

Yes and no.  Two things that are being overlooked here.

(1) Google is opt in for location services on their phones.  If you choose not to, I'm sure you install a dozen apps that probably do the same thing without you realizing it, but at least it's opt in.

(2) The tracking file on the iPhone/iPad is stored on the phone and locally on your computer when backing up to iTunes.  Why is this a big deal?  Because it's no longer anonymous.  When my service provider and google collect this information (and I've always assumed they did when I opted in to their services) they have my data and it's collected and probably tied back to some master file that's created about me.  Fine.  And I have a tremendous amount of faith, rightly or wrongly, in them protecting that file.

But what's happened now is this:  Apple, for no reason at all (according to them), has created this file that is now subpoenable by a court of law.  It's just a matter of time before  some divorce lawyer or some employer or some share holder etc. asks for that file.  And yes I'm going to say no, but it's going to cost me a bundle to defend against that subpoena request because it's a file creating a record that might be of interest to the court or the case against me. 

And that's the best case scenario. I'm sure the Tiger Woods phenomenon is about to start with some suspicious spouse locating that file on a hard drive on their own and putting together a juicy story to take to a divorce lawyer.  No subpoena needed now…

If you ask Google for that file, they are going to spend a boatload to defend against getting access to that file.  And they will probably win.

As strange as this may sound, I wish Apple had (1) asked for an opt in and (2) kept that file themselves with no local record.

herr doktor,

although telcos have been collecting similar info, it took a court order to access it.  in other words, for the mere mortal, that information was unaccessible and purely theoretical.  now if someone steals your phone or gets access to your home computer, they can get all this data.  not so theoretical all of a sudden.

i think the main reason for all this indignation is that it was a surprise.  researchers accidentally discovered this, apple obviously didn't mean for this to be widely known.  people feel duped.  i have no idea how consumers would have reacted if this functionality was made known from the outset, i suspect they would have protested… pointing to the fact that maybe this isn't such a good idea.

conspiracy theorists have put forth the idea that apple did this at the request of The Government.  personally, i think apple did this because they could.  they're in the data business.  google has made a mint by "collecting information first, find use for it later".  speaking of google, they got in trouble a while back for exactly this: a stink was raised over the google maps vans that collected information about wireless networks as they mapped and photographed streets.   t'was the same thing: they were sucking in all the data they could collect, figuring that some day they'll figure out how to use it (read: monetize it).

sweetcell wrote:
conspiracy theorists have put forth the idea that apple did this at the request of The Government.  personally, i think apple did this because they could. 

I'm not defending Apple at all, I think they suck.  I think my point is more along the lines of what you say above.  And I hadn't thought about the subpoena issue.   

I'm sure I'm offending a wide swath here, but in general I think you can't trust data geeks… whether it's Julian Assange, Steve Jobs or Sergeiy Brin, they think they are entitled to any information they come across.

Herr wrote:
in general I think you can't trust data geeks… whether it's Julian Assange, Steve Jobs or Sergeiy Brin, they think they are entitled to any information they come across.

i think that's a very valid apprehension.  i have worked with the my firm's Data Forensics team, and i've been struck at the shockingly neutral & agnostic view they take of data: it's a stream of 1's and 0's that in the right hands can be turned into money.  data is neutral, and data wants to be free.  it's not people's lives, it doesn't have real-work repercussions (other than maybe financial).  quality of life?  sorry, can't be measured, and isn't implicitly captured in the data…

As Sweets said, the data itself is neutral. The real problem comes in with who has access to all that data and what they may decide to do with that data. While, yes, there is definitely a certain degree of a caveat emptor element to what the user throws out there, you can't just always blame the user for what can be done with all those details.

We too often have a real blind trust towards others who might have access to our data. In other cases, there's also a lot of data mining and snooping done that we know almost nothing about. Some less innocuous than others while some could be downright devastating in the wrong hands regardless of how innocent any given detail may be. It's really not that big of a deal if some company is only using very basic statistics about the demographics of the type of person who might buy their products. Using your personal information to sell to anyone who wants to buy your personal information for whatever they choose to do with that information is a whole other story. Would you like some Temporance nutcase knocking on your door like a Jehovah's Witness pusher just because you occasionally buy a bottle of wine at your local liquor store? Or maybe not get that coveted job interview because they choose to assume that you might just have a drinking problem regardless of what the truth might be? The potential is there to be totally exploited in any way another may choose from marketing to who gets what job or even used to gather information for some sort of character assassination. Just think for a moment about what the Nixon administration was up to regarding the Watergate break in. Oh, and don't forget the Stasi and how they collected all sorts of very detailed files on their citizens and for what purposes, all without the technology we have today.

It's very important to not always be so naive and trusting in the real world by thinking, 'well, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't have anything to worry about'. Sure, we 'shouldn't' but the fact is, just like how numbers can be manipulated and distorted by any good publicity agent, lawyer, politician, sales person, etc., so can any given detail about your personal life by anyone who has an agenda that may not be in your best interest.

Seriously, in many cases, it's none of their damn business! Think about it for a moment; if you end up at a sobriety road stop, would you want Big Brother downloading every bit of data from your cell phone regardless of what they may or may not be doing with it? Today, it may be because you ran a stop sign (even though that is not sufficient cause to extract your data though we see it's been done in Michigan). Tomorrow it's anyone they randomly choose to walk up to on the street if we let them continue to tighten up on us like this. History has proven that this is how Totalitarian societies get, maintain and abuse control. Don't ever automatically assume that 'it can't happen here' because, yes, it can!

There's all sorts of other technologies they (be it corporate, government or otherwise) can use on us that hasn't even been hinted at here. Some have already been developed and are even in use while others are still in the R&D stages. Corporate spying is supposedly a big user of some of this stuff while 'the authorities' are another. Then you have the nosy and possibly even psychotic geek head who have their own purposes. So, yeah, caveat emptor but we too must be vigilant and not let so many others abuse the ability to grab our data just because they can. Of course, when it's brought to their attention they will always claim some high minded purpose like refining your personal browsing experiences to preventing terrorism but, the truth is, that's not always their true intentions. It is our jobs to be informed and take action to protect ourselves, be it regarding our personal use to actively getting involved with various privacy advocates who act to protect our rights. The choice is yours and should always be your choice, not that of anyone with the money and power to exploit for their own benefit however they see fit.

People have been saying a totalitarian society is near since the day this country was founded, and that notion seems more preposterous than ever.  If nothing else, it can be conclusively demonstrated that the "big brother" model of governance is bad for business, and what's good for business is what is setting the pace of our country's future.

the more likely scenario is companies and unethical individuals taking advantage of personal data in ways big and small, and in ways that haven't even been foreseen yet.  Software is getting so complex that companies like Apple can insert things like this tracking file that go for years without being detected, and they will continue to do so.  And even companies aren't monolithic, and don't have total control or knowledge of what their own divisions and individual employees choose to insert in software.  Who knows what else is out there.

So there's a lot to be concerned about … but the Soviet style "big brother" scenario, though, is something that will stay in the 20th Century.  That's what the yahoos forming militias and filling their garages with ammo don't get.

I'm sure that the people in Michigan would disagree.

Also, the majority of those across the planet who would disagree with you are not 'yahoos forming militias and filling their garages with ammo'. Most of them are just regular good and generally law abiding citizens who see what's going on around them and how its been changing over the years. Without naming any of them, I know of bands who don't like touring here because of how much of a police state we've turned into. One, in particular, refuse to come back because of that very reason regardless of the fact that they do have the fan base who would love for them to return. Another that I know of was totally freaked out a few years ago from what they witnessed and had to go through. Maybe your personal experiences have been easy on you but there are countless examples and practices that have gone through that demonstrates that we are slipping downwards. Yes, many have fought and will continue to fight for our rights with varying results. Thank God for those who know the difference between true freedom and are aware of how other factions continue to chip away at them; otherwise, we would be that much worse off. 

With all due respect, you would make a very easy frog to boil.

by "here" do you mean dc or the united states?

i like the fact that in the terminator movies, skynet became self aware on april 19, 2011.  and mister cameron remarked that we have indeed been controlled by mindless robots due to these horrid addictions to iphones and blackberries and androids.  i mean come on . . . they're called androids.

godsshoeshine wrote:
by "here" do you mean dc or the united states?

You need to clarify yourself and tell us who you are asking.

If you are referring to this sentence of mine:

"Without naming any of them, I know of bands who don't like touring here because of how much of a police state we've turned into."

… 'here' means in the US, although the one band that I mentioned was particularly freaked out while in DC as opposed to any other location they played.

sorry, that's what i was asking, yes

can i ask what country these bands are from? i'd assume the uk, but they have cctv on every street there

godsshoeshine wrote:
can i ask what country these bands are from? i'd assume the uk, but they have cctv on every street there

One is from the UK and the other is from Ireland. Btw, it wasn't only the cameras that freaked out the one band. It was stuff much more aggressive and intrusive than that but I really don't feel comfortable blabbing too much else on their personal experiences.

Yes, I know those countries, among others, have their own squeezing fists to deal with but none of that justifies it going on anywhere else, especially within our own country. Thing is, it's really a global effort coordinated to control us all. All these fists work hand in hand and it's not always for the reasons they claim.

interesting

ireland i can totally see. they do what they want to do. place is crazier than i guessed. but in a good way

I don't know about Ireland, but bands coming to the US from the UK and bitching that we're a police state is pretty rich, given that in the UK people can get thrown in jail for far less cause than here.    Maybe they got treated rudely at immigration, but the customs folks at Heathrow are no less ugly to people who aren't citizens.

Anyway, there are also a ton of working class people who've been successfully convinced that taxing the rich is bad for them… so Jaguar, with all respect, the opinions of a bunch of people and bands offer no reflection on what's real or not.

Back to the topic of note….

Gizmodo has done a decent job of explaining the difference between iOS/Android/WP7 with a chart:

Linky....

Doom, history proves otherwise, especially since the Patriot Act.

Anyway, to lighten up the mood with a piece somewhat related in this article, I found a comment that cracked me up. It's about a site called Foursquare that is a location-sharing social network.

"Because Foursquare was down, millions had no clue where they were."

vansmack wrote:
Back to the topic of note….

Gizmodo has done a decent job of explaining the difference between iOS/Android/WP7 with a chart:

Linky....

that's great… and as an added bonus takes us back from "vast global conspiracy" to "panic, but just a tiny bit."