Last Great Debut Album?

Originally posted by eros:
I could also throw the Stone Roses record in there. Even more interesting since they totally imploded after it.

i was thinking the same thing. and esp with all the bands they have influenced (esp as of late). if kasabian isnt the stone roses reincarnated, im not sure what is. Serge even has ian brown's ego!

my own choice would have been bon jovi - slippery when wet - but its not their debut album, alas. (nor would it qualify as the last great…).

Originally posted by Mobius:

Originally posted by TheDirector217:

Originally posted by Mobius:
Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die defined the era and influenced all who followed


The Stone Roses - defined the era and influenced all who followed

Already named Ready To Die, but love that you mentioned it nonetheless.

A little emphasis doesn't hurt! I'll add that I don't think Reasonable Doubt exists without Ready To Die (as Hot Fuss does not exist without Is This It)

Not really. Two different kinds of albums. Reasonable was an introspective album dealing with the privileges, pitfalls & "psychoanalysis" of hustling if you will. A new twist on what was at that time a tired subject.

Ready To Die came from a place of desparation & hopelessness.

Hot Fuss was cool & all, but it wasn't a classic. But under the criteria they did have a shitload of buzz, plus they were nice enough to create The Bravery. Pause.

:eek:

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
P.S. Do the Mighty Mighty Bosstones fit in this argument/convo, cause they were getting burn around that period as well.

I would put them on the list behind No doubt and Sublime, but way ahead of 311. But MTV did not dictate what was cool for me, ever actually, but KROQ did for the majority of my formative years, and since you were not in So Cal then and had no access to KROQ, I'm giving you a pass a buying the first of many rounds in September - as soon as No Doubt comes on the jukebox that is. Or Bad Fish, which is the best Sublime song.

Originally posted by BookerT:
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Dr.DreTheChronic.jpg" alt=" - " />

yup

All of you keep mentioning albums that will forever be on "best of the decade" etc. lists but are not actually "great."

I believe "a great album" in this sense isn't just an album that causes a 'stir,' although it helps if the album did, but an album that is a strong statement of both the band, the music at the time it was released, and maybe even something about society at the time of its release. Likewise, one should be able to pinpoint the influence the album had on, again, the band, the era's music, and society. It can't just be an album that brought about millions of copycat bands, it had to be one that shook up music as a whole.

So Tragic Kingdom? No. Grace is out as well because the influence that album had isn't really existent. On Avery Island? Get the fuck outta here, Julian. The debuts of Oasis and Nirvana violate the rule that it can't just spawn ripoff bands, because the influence of those two isn't really felt on anything outside of the genres those bands belong to. This is why the Strokes are out too. What bands are influenced by the Strokes but don't sound like them?

Therefore, the three albums previously mentioned that best fit the description of great above are Slanted and Enchanted, Funeral, and, yes, Hot Fuss. Granted, arguments can be made against all three. But I guess that's kind of the point.

BTW, I'd like to add DJ Shadow's Endtroducing…. to the discussion.

Originally posted by vansmack:

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
P.S. Do the Mighty Mighty Bosstones fit in this argument/convo, cause they were getting burn around that period as well.

I would put them on the list behind No doubt and Sublime, but way ahead of 311. But MTV did not dictate what was cool for me, ever actually, but KROQ did for the majority of my formative years, and since you were not in So Cal then and had no access to KROQ, I'm giving you a pass a buying the first of many rounds in September - as soon as No Doubt comes on the jukebox that is. Or Bad Fish, which is the best Sublime song.

Once again, not a big Sublime fan. But "Bad Fish" is one hot ass song. Agreed.

WARNING: UNRELATED THOUGHT P.S. This ska thing got me thinking. After Virgin Festival this weekend, my new favorite Police song (this week) is "When The World Is Running Down . . ." They pulled it out of nowhere, as that was the first time I heard it in 3 shows. Forgot how great it was. But we will save this for our jukebox debate.

And of course, I can't hear it here. But I am well aware of KROQ & their marvelous annual Weenie Roasts. :D

I'm not a big fan myself, but this one certainly gets a lot of credit for being groundbreaking and spawning a whole genre.

<img src="http://www.abc.net.au/myfavouritealbum/albumart/img/bollocks.jpg" alt=" - " />

Originally posted by you be pickup:
On Avery Island? Get the fuck outta here, Julian.

That was a complete joke. My serious answers are Ten and Give Up.

Originally posted by you be pickup:
All of you keep mentioning albums that will forever be on "best of the decade" etc. lists but are not actually "great."

it had to be one that shook up music as a whole.

Without diving too far in, you wouldn't say The Chronic fits that decription???? Cause that album is far more historically important in music than the Stone Roses or Funeral. And before you get your Vickies in a bunch, I like both of those albums aforementioned. I'm just throwing your criteria back at you . . .

Originally posted by you be pickup:
BTW, I'd like to add DJ Shadow's Endtroducing…. to the discussion.

And this album "shook up music" how???

Originally posted by you be pickup:
All of you keep mentioning albums that will forever be on "best of the decade" etc. lists but are not actually "great."

I believe "a great album" in this sense isn't just an album that causes a 'stir,' although it helps if the album did, but an album that is a strong statement of both the band, the music at the time it was released, and maybe even something about society at the time of its release. Likewise, one should be able to pinpoint the influence the album had on, again, the band, the era's music, and society. It can't just be an album that brought about millions of copycat bands, it had to be one that shook up music as a whole.

So Tragic Kingdom? No. Grace is out as well because the influence that album had isn't really existent. On Avery Island? Get the fuck outta here, Julian. The debuts of Oasis and Nirvana violate the rule that it can't just spawn ripoff bands, because the influence of those two isn't really felt on anything outside of the genres those bands belong to. This is why the Strokes are out too. What bands are influenced by the Strokes but don't sound like them?

Therefore, the three albums previously mentioned that best fit the description of great above are Slanted and Enchanted, Funeral, and, yes, Hot Fuss. Granted, arguments can be made against all three. But I guess that's kind of the point.

BTW, I'd like to add DJ Shadow's Endtroducing…. to the discussion.

I don't follow the logic of this at all.

First of all, it's pre-Appetite, so that album would still be the last great debut (although we've come up with a few that I think definitely count).

Second, everyone knows the Stooges invented punk :D

Originally posted by eros:
I'm not a big fan myself, but this one certainly gets a lot of credit for being groundbreaking and spawning a whole genre.

&lt;img src="http://www.abc.net.au/myfavouritealbum/albumart/img/bollocks.jpg" alt=" - " /&gt;

Originally posted by nkotb:
(although we've come up with a few that I think definitely count).

Second, everyone knows the Stooges invented punk :D

I'll toss The Who & The Kinks in as the blueprint, but I most def agree with you.

Originally posted by vansmack:

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
There wasn't anything particularly influential about Tragic Kingdom. Sublime &amp; 311 were already running with the "ska thing" that exploded in the mid-90s.

I'll make a deal with you: I won't lecture you on rap and hip-hop if you promise to not give any more lectures on Mid-90's ska. Mid-90's ska for the rest of America was late 80's for the fine folks in So Cal, and yes, while it was pinched from Marley and the Specials from the late 70's early 80's UK revival, it's evident by your inclusion of 311 in the same conversation as No Doubt and Sublime that you're way out of your league. Fishbone, I would have given you, but 311 is unforgivable. Love it or hate it, No Doubt are credited with bringing Ska to the 90's mainstream music scene, not 311 or Sublime.

some people just shouldnt discuss ska music. on that note, were you a fan of the dance hall crashers smackie? from richmond, but they had that really catchy song 'he wants me back'. theres a great album called ska-quake that had the best california ska bands on it. and i learned how to skank with the guys from skankin' pickle! ok so check out this stuff. now heres some ska music to listen to:

. He Wants Me Back - Dance Hall Crashers
2. Diablo Ska - Jump with Joey
3. Bad Attitude
4. Fakin' Jamaican - Skankin' Pickle
5. Telephone - Skeletones
6. Ooh Ooh A-Hi Hi - Hepcat
7. Rack 'Em Up - Imperials
8. Pinstripe Suit - Let's Go Bowling
9. Up Yours - No Doubt
10. I'm Giving Up
11. Don't Change My Song - The Specs
12. Martians Don't Skank
13. Rosalina - The Upbeat

Simple. DJ Shadow shook each album he sampled from out of the LP sleeve.

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
And this album "shook up music" how???

NO PUNK DEBATES.

Originally posted by econo:
Simple. DJ Shadow shook each album he sampled from out of the LP sleeve.

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
And this album "shook up music" how???

hahaha i nearly spit out my cake reading that. good one!

Speaking of ska, the Pietasters are playing for free Friday night five miles from my house. Worth the time and gas money?

Mariah Carey self-titled

;)

Originally posted by miss pretentious:

Originally posted by Julian, faux celeb-porn CONNOISSEUR:

Originally posted by miss pretentious:
why would you own an album ironically?

I don't even know how to begin answering that question! :eek:

it's an honest question though. like, did you just get it as a gift and keep it for giggles? or did you actually purchase it because you felt it would look good as part of a collection? or what?

Maybe it's ironic because it's NOT a debut album, I'm surprised one of the many Californians frequenting this board didn't chime in here, as the first ND album was 92, think I still have the cassette in storage somewhere.

<img src="http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc400/c494/c49483k6irv.jpg" alt=" - " />