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Big Yawn is a Joke

markie
Joined: October 15, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 13178
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:00 PM UTC #
Poor old Redsock….

I get the feeling that Redsock is one of those guys who will one day become very rich and succesful through his eagerness and determination and maybe just a little dumb luck.. It is clear he has put a lot of effort into the website and in arranging shows.

I dont think the owner of a media outlet should control every word either. If those are the opinions and thoughts of the reviewer so be it.

If you have a differing viewpoint and are so burning to express it, it would seem clear to me also that you should start your own website or right your own reviews.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:02 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
So, which is it? If it's not a matter of opinion, then how can you voice your opinion?
You really are a feeble-minded little thing aren't you? My point was that my gripe is not with the writer's opinion of the albums, it is with their blazingly obvious lack of qualifications to write these reviews at all.

Nobody here has offered any intelligent defense of these reviews or the site, or its tagline or rating system. You've just rallied around your pals and against people who are criticising you. That's commendable, sticking up for a friend, but kind of uninteresting and doesn't do much for the discourse on this board.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:04 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Certainly not hurting my feelings as I didn't write either of the reviews in question.
hello? I was talking about redsock's feeling you fool…
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:04 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by chaz:
I write e-mails at work and occasionally even help out with a proposal or web document. Guess that means I'm a professional writer too!
I write a newsletter, press releases, ad copy and other stuff, you ass. Get a grip.
i think you are generalizing this whole site, just as the reviewer has generalized country music. its the pot and the kettle, celeste.

A music review is just an opinion. some do it better than others, but i think the writers for BigYawn are learning, and they are not "professional" writers.

i don't think any of my reviews or most of the other reviews claim a know-it-all attitude. but even if they do…thats a review. if all reviews were "well, i think the cd is good, but thats just my opinion, i dont really know if you'd like it" then reviews altogether would be pointless.
reviewers are taught to proclaim that they have the knowledge to tell you if its good or not.

all reviewers have to do it. wishy-washy reviews are the worst, i am sure you agree.

i dont write too many reviews anymore, because i dont even like reviews. i dont read them, and i dont write them too much (ask redsock) but to say the whole site is a joke is just weak.

and quite frankly, expected of you. you never fail to disappoint in revealing what a miserable snooty bitch you really are.

voicing your opinion is one thing, but doing it in a hurtful way in a forum that you KNOW has many of the writers on it, was done deliberately to be mean. and dont deny it.

redsock and others are just doing this as a hobby and are trying to get involved in the music they love. not trying to be purveyors of all knowledge.

you have a right to an opinion and a right to voice it, but this is just downright disrespectful to everyone involved in Bigyawn AND everyone in this forum. but i suppose you have the right to that too. sad, really.
ratioci nation
Joined: November 22, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4463
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:05 PM UTC #
oooooooooooh cat fight!

sorry, thought the thread could use a sexist remark
Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:07 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
OYou really are a feeble-minded little thing aren't you?
ok, that's enough, you porky midget!
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:17 PM UTC #
this is all I am saying:

you can't categorically brush a genre with such a condescending stroke and expect to be taken seriously…

you can't call an artist that has been around for YEARS "this Ringenber guy" without showing that you have no background…

here's a better review of the album that focuses on the content of the album, not the reviewers distaste for its genre

http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/r/ringenbergjason-empire.shtml
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:21 PM UTC #
ok, now. after reading the first review and "scanning through" the second. I can make a couple points.

1. out of ALL of the reviews, these 2 do NOT make or break BigYawn.

furthermore, BigYawn is a site more for rock and indie-pop music, so a real country fan may never find this site. therefore, they may actually be better off speaking like they dont know much about country. someone namedropping every county album or reference in a review, may confuse me and leave me with no idea what the album may really sound like.

also, the first review sounds like a rant. which may have its place, but maybe shouldn't be in the review category. it does lack detail and information and gets a little harsh.

it even gets wishy washy at the end, after proclaiming quite a bit of knowledge.

the problem is that if all reviewers reviewed CDs from bands they loved and knew ALL about, there would be very few bad reviews. but are we getting paid to review these? no. so how much research can we really do? do i have the time and resources to listen to a bands back catalogue and that of closely related bands before reviewing a CD? nope.

i believe you may have a point in disagreeing with this review. but it doesnt make me less disgusted about the way you went about it.

you should be spit on.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:27 PM UTC #
I'm not part of your little club, think of me as your real "random citizen" or a focus group of one…I really didn't know that SO MANY of you wrote reviews for Big Yawn, and you're right…I don't read all of them…oy vey…I'd probably really blow my stack…I didn't mean to "hurt feelings"…I am a bitch, but I like it that way…when it comes to writing and communicationa and going PUBLIC with them, I think it's helpful to hear some criticism…and the fact of life is you're going to hear it…think of how poor Jason would feel if he read that review! Oh wait, he'd dismiss it because of the many clues the writer left that he or she HAD no clue about the music. Just think, if the review writers had the depth and background and did not show their lack of intelligence so blatantly, we could give their reviews more creedence…
Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:36 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Celeste:
I'm not part of your little club
would the club you refer to be "a club of second-rate wanna-bes?"
redsock
Joined: February 20, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1893
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:43 PM UTC #
Wow, you get to the board a little late in the morning and you miss all the good stuff. Hmm…. where to begin?

First off, I am a member of this board, but it is in no way shape or form affiliated with BY. I promote BY stuff just as Fico promotes Cartel, and Medusa promotes her DJ events. I guess this is as good a place as any to air your complaints about any of the above, but the trend of folks feeling the need to publicly trash us, as opposed to offering some criticism to me personally, continues. Which is fine, I don't really care, it doesn't embaress me in the least. If it makes you feel better to say it out in the open, which it obviously does, I'm happy for you.

To the matter at hand. Celeste and Rhett (mostly Rhett) have never had good things to say about BY, and their criticism in and of itself means nothing to me. I personally think their taste in music is horrible, their favorite artists boring and many of the songs they love physically make me ill. I grew up on country music, attended the Grand Old Opry numerous times as a child, actually like Bluegrass, and have a grand appreciation for the legends of the genre, Loretta Lynn included. But I didn't write that review. On a staff of almost 30 writers, sometimes the wrong person gets the wrong CD. In the case of Jason Ringenberg, that is obvious. It is a pet peave of mine, when writers outwardly say they hate the particular genre of CD they are reviewing, but that is an internal issue. As for Loretta, whatever I think of the new CD – and I'm not loving it much – I think the writer's point of why everyone is writing about the CD is spot on. No Jack White, no one cares. Sorry Loretta, it's that simple.

In the end, you can rag on us all you like about uneducated writers, our lack of relevance and whatever else your panties are in a bunch over. Some of your points are very valid, though they often become lost in your blind fury. I've said this before, keeping this site together and functional is not easy, and soetimes things don't always end up the way you want it. This shit ain't easy and it is a huge work in progress. When you start your own website and work with a staff of folks and experience many of the pitfalls we have, let's sit down and have a long talk. I'm not gonna apologize for either of those reviews. They are, as are all the others, personal statements from the writers and do not necessarilly reflect the feelings of the "BY editorial staff." I hope in time we'll have some "highly educated" country music lover who can talk endlessly about every CD released with a steel guitar. Until then, i'm going to continue to try and make it work as best I can. And if you feel that blows, that stop reading the fucking site.

PS- I apologize for the length of this post.
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:49 PM UTC #
Originally posted by redsock:
I think the writer's point of why everyone is writing about the CD is spot on. No Jack White, no one cares. Sorry Loretta, it's that simple.
this, i meant to post originally as well. I have felt this way about several artists as of late. Indie rock and its fans will tend to glom onto something they would normally hate, for a reason unbeknownst to me.
most of the review really sounds like me talking, but maybe something I'd be too shy to write. I feel the same way about the Darkness….why anyone likes them and not Warrant, I'll never know. Loretta Lynn is in that same category. Remember when everyone in hiphop land bought Dido's CD cause she was on that Eminem track? same deal.

ps - i love redsock. even though he doesnt write me back anymore.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:49 PM UTC #
I believe her point was that the reviews were written in a way that conveyed that the writer(s) did not have much knowledge of the genre they were dealing with. If the writer does not have a knowledgeable grasp of the genre they are writing about, why waste the bandwidth to post such a review? It only reflects poorly on Big Yawn's ability to be taken seriously in the local music community.

That being said, I do agree that the Loretta Lynn and Jason Ringenberg efforts are indeed fairly mediocre, though I don't think the writers of these reviews offered any compelling evidence as to why this was the case.


Originally posted by sonickteam2:


the problem is that if all reviewers reviewed CDs from bands they loved and knew ALL about, there would be very few bad reviews. but are we getting paid to review these? no. so how much research can we really do? do i have the time and resources to listen to a bands back catalogue and that of closely related bands before reviewing a CD? nope.


you should be spit on.
redsock
Joined: February 20, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1893
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:52 PM UTC #
And so you know, these comments don't hurt my feelings. I do spend an enormous amount of time on this site, and when someone trashes my hard work to the extent celeste did, it usually does make me want to kill them or cry, but not in this case.

But calling our reviews pompous? Have you read other sites' reviews? I mean c'mon…..
sonickteam2
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:52 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I believe her point was that the reviews were written in a way that conveyed that the writer(s) did not have much knowledge of the genre they were dealing with.
uh, good point. they actually came out and said it, no? maybe not a great idea. but lets not review reviews!!! :)
Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:53 PM UTC #
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Indie rock and its fans will tend to glom onto something they would normally hate, for a reason unbeknownst to me.
it's easy to explain – one can find the same proportion of trend-following sheep among indie rock fans as among the general human population – which means the majority.
Doctor Doom
Joined: April 23, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3745
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:57 PM UTC #
Originally posted by redsock:
But calling our reviews pompous? Have you read other sites' reviews? I mean c'mon…..
I was the one who said that, and I was only referring to the one review I read that Celeste linked to. I'm not familiar with anything else on that site, so it's the only thing I can comment on.
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:57 PM UTC #
I think Jack White is a legitimate lover of classic country music. You are right, it is a shame when Loretta Lynn and Johnny Cash suddenly become "cool" among the fickle, trendhopping indie rock snots. Too bad people have such rigidly defined ideas about music. Thankfully, Jack White does not.


Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by redsock:
I think the writer's point of why everyone is writing about the CD is spot on. No Jack White, no one cares. Sorry Loretta, it's that simple.
this, i meant to post originally as well. I have felt this way about several artists as of late. Indie rock and its fans will tend to glom onto something they would normally hate, for a reason unbeknownst to me.
most of the review really sounds like me talking, but maybe something I'd be too shy to write. I feel the same way about the Darkness….why anyone likes them and not Warrant, I'll never know. Loretta Lynn is in that same category. Remember when everyone in hiphop land bought Dido's CD cause she was on that Eminem track? same deal.

ps - i love redsock. even though he doesnt write me back anymore.
Celeste
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Big Yawn is a Joke December 22, 2004 at 04:59 PM UTC #
Originally posted by redsock:
But calling our reviews pompous? Have you read other sites' reviews? I mean c'mon…..
that wasn't me…they're too retarted to be pompous (OK, now I'm just ribbing you!)

I know a site like this is a lot of work…and I know it's not easy to write music reviews…that's why I don't do them! But cause something is hard and you try does not make you exempt from criticism. Anway, like you said, Redsock, my opinion doesn't bug you, and like Dupek said, you'll probably be rich someday…
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