ORIOLES

Are you playing dumb or just plain dumb? Obviously, I was referring to Cabrera.

Machado seems like a good guy. The accolades he has thus far recieved seem to be on point with someone who has batted .296 and hit 12 home runs in his first 116 career games.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Blah blah blah.

Cabrera plays for the Tigers….not really a major media market.

And he's a drunk who beats his wife, so that probably doesn't earn him any love.

hutch wrote:
Machado is hispanic.. just like Cabrera..

being hispanic means you have to do something extra to get recognition…

Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

Machado beat his wife and drove drunk? Man, that is news to me but, yeah, playing for a small market team in Baltimore and beating his wife/driving drunk I could see why he has been ignored so far….

James wrote:
Are you playing dumb or just plain dumb? Obviously, I was referring to Cabrera.

Machado seems like a good guy. The accolades he has thus far recieved seem to be on point with someone who has batted .296 and hit 12 home runs in his first 116 career games.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Blah blah blah.

Cabrera plays for the Tigers….not really a major media market.

And he's a drunk who beats his wife, so that probably doesn't earn him any love.

hutch wrote:
Machado is hispanic.. just like Cabrera..

being hispanic means you have to do something extra to get recognition…

Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

Machado beat his wife and drove drunk? Man, that is news to me but, yeah, playing for a small market team in Baltimore and beating his wife/driving drunk I could see why he has been ignored so far….

You're the dumb one jerky.. machado has been virtually ignored compared to Harper and Trout.

You were trying to say that Cabrera was ignored cause he is a drunk and beats his wife.. well whats your excuse for Machado? I guess he's also a drunk that beats his wife?

I don't think Machado has been ignored. Harper has been overhyped. Though I bet they talk more in Baltimore about Machado than they do Harper.

Trout has put up the numbers to back the hype he has received.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Are you playing dumb or just plain dumb? Obviously, I was referring to Cabrera.

Machado seems like a good guy. The accolades he has thus far recieved seem to be on point with someone who has batted .296 and hit 12 home runs in his first 116 career games.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Blah blah blah.

Cabrera plays for the Tigers….not really a major media market.

And he's a drunk who beats his wife, so that probably doesn't earn him any love.

hutch wrote:
Machado is hispanic.. just like Cabrera..

being hispanic means you have to do something extra to get recognition…

Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

Machado beat his wife and drove drunk? Man, that is news to me but, yeah, playing for a small market team in Baltimore and beating his wife/driving drunk I could see why he has been ignored so far….

You're the dumb one jerky.. machado has been virtually ignored compared to Harper and Trout.

You were trying to say that Cabrera was ignored cause he is a drunk and beats his wife.. well whats your excuse for Machado? I guess he's also a drunk that beats his wife?

James wrote:
I don't think Machado has been ignored. Harper has been overhyped. Though I bet they talk more in Baltimore about Machado than they do Harper.

Trout has put up the numbers to back the hype he has received.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Are you playing dumb or just plain dumb? Obviously, I was referring to Cabrera.

Machado seems like a good guy. The accolades he has thus far recieved seem to be on point with someone who has batted .296 and hit 12 home runs in his first 116 career games.

hutch wrote:

James wrote:
Blah blah blah.

Cabrera plays for the Tigers….not really a major media market.

And he's a drunk who beats his wife, so that probably doesn't earn him any love.

hutch wrote:
Machado is hispanic.. just like Cabrera..

being hispanic means you have to do something extra to get recognition…

Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

Machado beat his wife and drove drunk? Man, that is news to me but, yeah, playing for a small market team in Baltimore and beating his wife/driving drunk I could see why he has been ignored so far….

You're the dumb one jerky.. machado has been virtually ignored compared to Harper and Trout.

You were trying to say that Cabrera was ignored cause he is a drunk and beats his wife.. well whats your excuse for Machado? I guess he's also a drunk that beats his wife?

boy you really are a dumb one.. who cares who they talk about in Baltimore.. that wasn't the point of the article… the point was he's been virtually ignored nationally but talent evaluators rate him higher than Harper and see more long term potential in Machado than Trout or Harper whose bigger frames may lead to injuries.. did you read the article dude???

Machado was not getting the same amount of press because he came up 3 and half months after Trout and Harper - Buster was doing a disservice to the reader by saying "a few months later."  As baseball is only a 6 month season, 3 and half months is a long damn time.

Now that he's played 100 games, people are taking notice. I will remind you that he finished his 2012 season with a .262 average and a high K rate, which led a lot of evaluators wonder how long it was going to take to be elite.  Kudo's to him for cutting his swing down, which has increased his average and replaced HR's with doubles.  It's a just a matter of time before maturity and strength turns those doubles into HRs and that's what the scouts are starting to see.

Why the scouts think of Trout as only a speed guy is beyond me.  He's got as much power, if not more, than Harper.  Sure he stole 49 bases last year, but he hit 31 HR's, or 9 more than Harper in the same number of games.  I would also like to point out that he's never been on the DL, so the idea that he's overly physical just because of his size is undeserved.  He's much more mature and smart about what he does on the field than Bryce Harper.

It was year ago today that I said Trout was better than Harper, and it still isn't close.  He's been better in every category.

It was sometime in September that I said Machado is better than Harper, albeit jokingly.  I think.

hutch wrote:
Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

I had this conversation with The Director last season. Cabrera's personal history is definitely part of it, and he's not known as the nicest guy when it comes to the media.

But there is a huge split in baseball coverage these days thanks to Sabermetrics - I'm sure you will recall our WAR discussion from last season and the various other categories we were discussing between Trout and Cabrera.  Those discussions are happening in the media too and that was reflected in the coverage of Cabrera's Triple Crown.  The new guard doesn't care about the old culture, when there is so much more data available today.

Granted I'm old, but I still don't get why leading the league in all 3 categories - avg, hr and rbi - is pooped on by these sabers. 

vansmack wrote:

hutch wrote:
Cabrera was virtually ignored even though he got the triple crown.. can anyone seriously tell me that the same thing would have happened had he been an American kid from the midwest?

I had this conversation with The Director last season. Cabrera's personal history is definitely part of it, and he's not known as the nicest guy when it comes to the media.

But there is a huge split in baseball coverage these days thanks to Sabermetrics - I'm sure you will recall our WAR discussion from last season and the various other categories we were discussing between Trout and Cabrera.  Those discussions are happening in the media too and that was reflected in the coverage of Cabrera's Triple Crown.  The new guard doesn't care about the old culture, when there is so much more data available today.

Cabrera had the second highest offensive WAR last season.  7.8 to Trouts 8.0.  2nd in 2011 as well and he is leading the league this year.  Make no mistake Cabrera is a beast with the bat even with Sabermetrics . 

Shemp wrote:
Granted I'm old, but I still don't get why leading the league in all 3 categories - avg, hr and rbi - is pooped on by these sabers. 

atomicfront wrote:
Cabrera had the second highest offensive WAR last season.  7.8 to Trouts 8.0.  2nd in 2011 as well and he is leading the league this year.  Make no mistake Cabrera is a beast with the bat even with Sabermetrics .  

And that's where the misunderstanding is - it's not pooped on, nor is it not recognized as being exemplary.

They just thought he should have finished second in the voting and not first, especially when you factor in defense.  The MVP is not supposed to be a Silver Slugger Award, it's supposed to be the Most Valuable Player, which includes defense, or, sadly, only on the rare occasion pitching.

No one's saying he had a crappy season or that it should be ignored.  Classic journalists simply had them reversed 1 and 2 from Sabermetricians because the historical precedent of a "Triple Crown," the history of which is mired in the few stats MLB actually used to track back in the day, is less relevant now that MLB tracks a multitude of additional statistics. 

vansmack wrote:

Shemp wrote:
Granted I'm old, but I still don't get why leading the league in all 3 categories - avg, hr and rbi - is pooped on by these sabers. 

atomicfront wrote:
Cabrera had the second highest offensive WAR last season.  7.8 to Trouts 8.0.  2nd in 2011 as well and he is leading the league this year.  Make no mistake Cabrera is a beast with the bat even with Sabermetrics .  

And that's where the misunderstanding is - it's not pooped on, nor is it not recognized as being exemplary.

They just thought he should have finished second in the voting and not first, especially when you factor in defense.  The MVP is not supposed to be a Silver Slugger Award, it's supposed to be the Most Valuable Player, which includes defense, or, sadly, only on the rare occasion pitching.

No one's saying he had a crappy season or that it should be ignored.  Classic journalists simply had them reversed 1 and 2 from Sabermetricians because the historical precedent of a "Triple Crown," the history of which is mired in the few stats MLB actually used to track back in the day, is less relevant now that MLB tracks a multitude of additional statistics. 

Well the Angels didn't even make the playoffs.  So That is why Cabrera won the award. 

atomicfront wrote:
Well the Angels didn't even make the playoffs.  So That is why Cabrera won the award. 

Oh, Rookie. 

Where shall I start?  How about records:

2012 Angels: 89-73
2012 Tigers: 88-74

What?!  The Angels had a better record and only missed the playoff's because they didn't play in the AL Central?  Well let's give it to Cabrera then because he clearly was wise to pick a weak division.  So because they had 40% of their games against 3 of the worst 4 records in the AL, he deserves the MVP?  If the Angels only had to fend off the White Sox, they would have made the playoffs too.  Or were located somewhere else.

Or I could just follow the instructions given to voters (emphasis added):

Dear Voter:

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2. Number of games played.

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4. Former winners are eligible.

5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot. Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, including pitchers and designated hitters.

atomicfront wrote:
Well the Angels didn't even make the playoffs.  So That is why Cabrera won the award. 

Actually, this guy goes even further:

Beyond that, though, Trout's team was simply better than Cabrera's. The Angels had a better record than the Tigers by one game, and they had the better run differential. The Angels were five games over .500 against the AL Central, while the Tigers were seven games under .500 against the AL West. And that brings us to strength of schedule.

In 2012, the teams of the AL West were a combined 54 games over .500 against teams from outside the division and 28 games over .500 against Cabrera's AL Central. Additionally, the AL West had a winning mark against all comers – the AL East, the AL Central and interleague opponents. The teams of the AL Central, meantime, were 52 games below .500 against opponents from outside the division. Also keep in mind that this is the era of the unbalanced schedule. As a consequence, Trout's Angels played just 66 games against teams with losing records (average opponents' winning percentage: .513), while Cabrera's Tigers played 88 games against teams with losing records (average opponents' winning percentage: .495).

There's simply no comparison on this front. The Tigers made the playoffs because they were able to fend off the middling White Sox. The Angels failed to make the playoffs because they weren't able to fend off the A's and Rangers, postseason clubs, both.

So if you invoke the "his team made the playoffs" argument in this instance, then what you're really doing is rewarding Cabrera for his refined taste in weak opponents.

Source: CBSSports

why have people vote for MVP anyways? Just go by Smackie's statistical formula…

Anyway third base is a lot harder position to play than outfield.  And Cabrera moved to third because Prince Fielder was signed.  I mean Cabrera wasn't great but he wasn't bad for a guy who played the previous three seasons playing first base.  Trout's fielding this year is way down.  WAR isn't an exact science and .2 war isn't that much difference.  I will go with the guy who won the triple crown.

hutch wrote:
why have people vote for MVP anyways? Just go by Smackie's statistical formula…

Because MLB loves debates - keeps them in the press.

Why go by statistical formulas? Just make Derek Jeter MVP for every year. He's the guy the women want to bed, and the men want to be.

hutch wrote:
why have people vote for MVP anyways? Just go by Smackie's statistical formula…

James wrote:
Why go by statistical formulas? Just make Derek Jeter MVP for every year. He's the guy the women want to bed, and the men want to be.

hutch wrote:
why have people vote for MVP anyways? Just go by Smackie's statistical formula…

I don't want to be Derek Jeter.  I can't stand that guy.  I would want to be Tom Brady but wrong sport.

To bring this back to the O's - do not let Chris Davis participate in the HR Derby.

You've been warned.

vansmack wrote:
To bring this back to the O's - do not let Chris Davis participate in the HR Derby.

You've been warned.

No debate there.  Totally messes up your swing.

Are Pearce, Dickerson, Valencia, and Reimold so good that they can't give this guy a chance?


Triple-A Norfolk first baseman Travis Ishikawa, who was named the Orioles? organizational player of the month for May, has asked through his representation for an early opt-out of his contract, but it has not been granted.
He can officially opt-out of his minor league deal after Saturday ? and that almost certainly will happen. The 29-year-old left-handed hitter was not in Thursday?s lineup for the Tides.

?We had requested to their front office that if they weren?t going to call him up, we?d like to    exercise the out a few days early, but they haven?t granted that,? said Ishikawa?s agent, Jim McDowell. ?So he is in a holding period right now. Potentially, they could make a trade before Saturday or call him up.?

Ishikawa is batting .316 with seven homers, 31 RBIs and a .939 on-base-plus slugging percentage in 49 games. He was the organization?s hitter of the month for May when he batted .413 with all seven homers in 21 games during the month.

But he is behind big league home run leader Chris Davis at first base, and the Orioles seem content with using multiple players at designated hitter, including Steve Pearce, Chris Dickerson, Danny Valencia and the injured Nolan Reimold, among others. So it seems like a real long shot that Ishikawa will be called up ? meaning his time in the organization is ending.



Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-travis-ishikawa-asked-for-early-opt-out-20130613,0,4723595.story#ixzz2WDRUT567