BREAK UP THE F-ING NATIONALS

vansmack wrote:
Doug Fister to the Nats for three players!

In exchange, the Nationals sent infielder Steve Lombardozzi, left-hander Ian Krol and minor league lefty Robbie Ray to the Tigers.

I guess I'm not getting Rick Porcello.  Dammit.

I like it but my main concern is getting a big bat.

vansmack wrote:
Doug Fister to the Nats for three players!

In exchange, the Nationals sent infielder Steve Lombardozzi, left-hander Ian Krol and minor league lefty Robbie Ray to the Tigers.

I guess I'm not getting Rick Porcello.  Dammit.

detroit must really value the idea of a young lefties, because i can't seem to make sense of this deal.

lombo will stay on the bench (i can't even think of someone who he would be worth swapping as a defensive replacement!), and you've got two unproven talents that do not necessarily have high ceilings.

meanwhile, fister has been a constant.  very few walks, lots of quality starts, and injury free.  he's 29, he's not justin verlander, but he's entering the prime of his career.

really, this is a complete steal.

stevewizzle wrote:

vansmack wrote:
Doug Fister to the Nats for three players!

In exchange, the Nationals sent infielder Steve Lombardozzi, left-hander Ian Krol and minor league lefty Robbie Ray to the Tigers.

I guess I'm not getting Rick Porcello.  Dammit.

detroit must really value the idea of a young lefties, because i can't seem to make sense of this deal.

lombo will stay on the bench (i can't even think of someone who he would be worth swapping as a defensive replacement!), and you've got two unproven talents that do not necessarily have high ceilings.

meanwhile, fister has been a constant.  very few walks, lots of quality starts, and injury free.  he's 29, he's not justin verlander, but he's entering the prime of his career.

really, this is a complete steal.

well I agree it looks good for the Nats but obviously from the Tigers perspective they wanted to unload his contract… I'm guessing they weren't finding any teams giving them more… I mean they wouldn't want a deal that gave them something with a big contract in return because that would defeat the point of saving money, right?

I tend to feel Dombrowski knows his shit.. I mean he just got done with that great deal with Texas, right?

But our resident GM in waiting may have more to say…

like this trade a lot. fister will play the exact role he played in detroit, and hes the kind of guy the back end of the rotation here needs.

lombo was a good guy to have on the bench but utility guys like that arent too hard to find and he seemed to be wasting away on the bench a lot this year (though i imagine hes still a bench guy in detroit)

my concern is that going the cheap route to fill the starting pitcher hole (ie not throwing cash at a free agent) is a sign of the nats going after cano. obviously his bat would be great to have in the lineup but his contract demands scream disaster already. really hoping the nats steer clear

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:


my concern is that going the cheap route to fill the starting pitcher hole (ie not throwing cash at a free agent) is a sign of the nats going after cano. obviously his bat would be great to have in the lineup but his contract demands scream disaster already. really hoping the nats steer clear

huh? Cano would be great! we should be so lucky… but we know the Lerner's will not OK the huge contract it would take..

I don't understand how anybody after the offensive debacle last year for 2/3 of the season doesn't think the Nats needs a big bat… here's a clue: if you're banking on all the players putting up career hitting performances during the entire season and people like LaRoche and Zim not getting hurt for parts of the season, well I got a bridge to sell you…

we saw it last year time and time again that the pitchers would do great (Strasburg, anyone remember???) and the Nats wouldn't give any run support… regardless of how good your pichers are you are going to need to score runs to win.

at least that is the way I see it.

im fully on board with trying to add a big bat, but cano's contract demands are absurd

signing him might increase the odds of a deep playoff run in 2014 or 2015 but how quickly will that contract turn disastrous? not worth it imo

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
im fully on board with trying to add a big bat, but cano's contract demands are absurd

signing him might increase the odds of a deep playoff run in 2014 or 2015 but how quickly will that contract turn disastrous? not worth it imo

what? he just turned 31 October 22… he has plenty of good years left…

nobody is going to give him 300 million…i doubt anybody will give him 9 years…

maybe youre right, i just have a feeling that whoever signs him is gonna regret it in a few years, and i dont want a bad contract getting in the way of possible zimmermann/desmond/harper/strasburg extensions

i also think its telling that the yankees are balking at giving out a huge contract when they need the offense more than almost anyone.

anyway ive read a few reactions to this trade and it seems like the overwhelming consensus is that its an absolute steal for the nats

also saw a comment that said this move could free up a bench spot for espinosa to become the new utility infielder. id like that for a lot of reasons (glove and power mostly) but i think espinosa needs a total change of scenery. really cant see him ever getting his swing back here

++++ for the Nats - I'm as excited as one can be for a reliable back-of-the-rotation guy.

Keith Law sums it up well:

A lefty reliever, a backup at second, and a non-top 100 prospect is just not a good return for two years of one of the top 30 starters in baseball.

HoyaSaxa03 wrote:
++++ for the Nats - I'm as excited as one can be for a reliable back-of-the-rotation guy.

It's definitely a helluva deal for the Nats.  Of course, they're left with no lefty in the pen, and the Tigers acquiring Krol means Smyly becomes the 5th starter and Krol the lefty specialist in the pen, but they're clearly shedding payroll as they attempt to extend the contracts of Scherzer and Miggy.

I'd have to think Detroit could have gotten more, but maybe they decided two guys that fill holes are better than more talented guys.  I don't know anything about the minor league kid.

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
i dont want a bad contract getting in the way of possible zimmermann/desmond/harper/strasburg extensions

You mean the bad contracts, not extensions, for Strasburg and Harper, both of which are represented by Boras.

Unless you actually like your deals for Werth ($20m for 2014, $21m for 2015-2017) and the fact that you're paying a pre-arb Rendon almost $2m a season?

vansmack wrote:

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
i dont want a bad contract getting in the way of possible zimmermann/desmond/harper/strasburg extensions

You mean the bad contracts, not extensions, for Strasburg and Harper, both of which are represented by Boras.

Unless you actually like your deals for Werth ($20m for 2014, $21m for 2015-2017) and the fact that you're paying a pre-arb Rendon almost $2m a season?

fair point, though id use all that (especially werths contract) to further my opposition to the nats pursuing cano

vansmack wrote:
I don't know anything about the minor league kid.

Apparently, Robbie Ray was the "key to the deal."

vansmack wrote:

vansmack wrote:
I don't know anything about the minor league kid.

Apparently, Robbie Ray was the "key to the deal."

you keep beating me to this.  considered a top 10 prospect for most clubs…

still, the nats time is now, not in 3 years.

vansmack wrote:

vansmack wrote:
I don't know anything about the minor league kid.

Apparently, Robbie Ray was the "key to the deal."

there's no such thing as a pitching prospect.

vansmack wrote:

HoyaSaxa03 wrote:
++++ for the Nats - I'm as excited as one can be for a reliable back-of-the-rotation guy.

It's definitely a helluva deal for the Nats.  Of course, they're left with no lefty in the pen, and the Tigers acquiring Krol means Smyly becomes the 5th starter and Krol the lefty specialist in the pen, but they're clearly shedding payroll as they attempt to extend the contracts of Scherzer and Miggy.

I'd have to think Detroit could have gotten more, but maybe they decided two guys that fill holes are better than more talented guys.  I don't know anything about the minor league kid.

The Nats had "no lefty in the pen" at the start of last year - Krol was found money, and I'm sure we can find someone else.

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
like this trade a lot. fister will play the exact role he played in detroit, and hes the kind of guy the back end of the rotation here needs.

I said it about my Tigers last year and I'll say it about the Nats this upcoming season: any pitching staff that has Doug Fister as their #4 is pretty frickin' formidable.

I like the Tigers general moves this off-season: getting Nathan and Krol to partner with Benoit for a formidable bullpen, shedding Prince, but I definitely feel like the Nats got Fister for dimes on the dollar (unless Ray becomes a fringe All-Star pitcher at some point down the road).

Julian, wrote:

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
like this trade a lot. fister will play the exact role he played in detroit, and hes the kind of guy the back end of the rotation here needs.

I said it about my Tigers last year and I'll say it about the Nats this upcoming season: any pitching staff that has Doug Fister as their #4 is pretty frickin' formidable.

I like the Tigers general moves this off-season: getting Nathan and Krol to partner with Benoit for a formidable bullpen, shedding Prince, but I definitely feel like the Nats got Fister for dimes on the dollar (unless Ray becomes a fringe All-Star pitcher at some point down the road).

seems a bit reactionary to me, in a bad way. sure, prince struggled with personal issues in detroit, and the bullpen was below average. they resolved those issues by weakening their biggest strengths:  baseballs best one through four rotation and losing cabrera's protection completely changes this teams dynamic.