The Nats Thread

hutch wrote:

vansmack wrote:
7 years,  $180m.  Have to think Zimmerman would be cheaper and younger.

only $180? wow…I thought it was 7 years 200 million.. they got a bargain

I don't know we can say with any certitude Zim will be less..but the point is he may just not want to play for DC.. it may not be just about money…

but Scherzer ain't chopped liver.. he's a great pitcher..

I'm happy.. should i be sad they signed him Vansmack just cause you hate it when players get money? You always look at it from the team's front office standpoint.. I'm just a fan and look forward to seeing him.. I think signing him is a huge coup

i look forward to 1, maybe 2 years in the future when you have non-stop complaining about how overpaid he is for his performance, and eventually question his maturity.

vansmack wrote:
This is an amazing article touting the skills of Scott Boras delivering for his clients over the last 10 years.  But not a single one of those deals has been good for the team.

Carlos Beltran (2004, seven years, $119 million)
Barry Zito (2006, seven years, $126 million)
Alex Rodriguez (2007, 10 years, $275 million)
Mark Teixeira (2008, eight years, $180 million)
Matt Holliday (2009, seven years, $120 million)
Jayson Werth (2010, seven years $126 million)
Prince Fielder (2011, nine years, $214 million)
Jacoby Ellsbury (2013, seven years, $153 million)

Buyers beware.

I'll just add:

Max Scherzer (2015, 7 years, $210 million)

Especially if they deal Zimmerman.  That would make this a +1 WAR deal, for $210m.  The deferred money makes it interesting though.  I think the Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla, for example.

vansmack wrote:
That would make this a +1 WAR deal, for $210m. 

To be fair, it'd be a +1 WAR deal for ($210million-(Zimmerman's 2015 salary+the first six years of Zimmerman's next contract)).

Which probably makes it a +1 WAR deal for ~$70million-ish.

Julian, wrote:
To be fair, it'd be a +1 WAR deal for ($210million-(Zimmerman's 2015 salary+the first six years of Zimmerman's next contract)).

Which probably makes it a +1 WAR deal for ~$45million (??).

Well, I was only calculating 2015.  Otherwise, yes, your formula, plus the fact that Zimmerman is 2 years younger, and I don't think Zimmerman gets $150m deal, but we'll see what Shields gets and adjust the market then.

I'm still not clear on how the deferment changes the luxury tax.  I've read both AAV and actual dollars spent.

Also, this does show that the Nats can work with Boras (which is surprising after the Werth deal).  That's a good sign for Strasburg, Harper & Rendon.

Carlos wrote:

hutch wrote:

vansmack wrote:
7 years,  $180m.  Have to think Zimmerman would be cheaper and younger.

only $180? wow…I thought it was 7 years 200 million.. they got a bargain

I don't know we can say with any certitude Zim will be less..but the point is he may just not want to play for DC.. it may not be just about money…

but Scherzer ain't chopped liver.. he's a great pitcher..

I'm happy.. should i be sad they signed him Vansmack just cause you hate it when players get money? You always look at it from the team's front office standpoint.. I'm just a fan and look forward to seeing him.. I think signing him is a huge coup

i look forward to 1, maybe 2 years in the future when you have non-stop complaining about how overpaid he is for his performance, and eventually question his maturity.

huh? he already won the Cy Young Carlitos!

He was the top pitcher available and the Nats went out and got him.. I love it.

interesting article

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--max-scherzer-s-7-year---210-million-deal-with-nats-contains-historic-deferrals-164857543.html

This Doesn't End well for the Nats

Seven seasons ago – that would be in 2008, if you?re not calculating along at home – 13 pitchers showed up on at least one ballot in the Cy Young voting. Six of them are retired now (Mike Mussina, Roy Halladay, Mariano Rivera, Brad Lidge, Ryan Dempster and Brandon Webb).

Of the other seven, Daisuke Matsuzaka is headed back to Japan, Johan Santana hasn't won a big-league game since June of 2012, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee spent a combined 200 days on the disabled list last year, and, while his team was winning the World Series, Tim Lincecum was starting as many games last October as Juan Marichal.

And that leaves two others, Ervin Santana and Francisco Rodriguez, who are, amazingly, still alive and well. But they also have changed teams a combined seven times since then.

So ? would you give a seven-year contract to any pitcher?

vansmack wrote:
This Doesn't End well for the Nats

Seven seasons ago – that would be in 2008, if you?re not calculating along at home – 13 pitchers showed up on at least one ballot in the Cy Young voting. Six of them are retired now (Mike Mussina, Roy Halladay, Mariano Rivera, Brad Lidge, Ryan Dempster and Brandon Webb).

Of the other seven, Daisuke Matsuzaka is headed back to Japan, Johan Santana hasn't won a big-league game since June of 2012, CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee spent a combined 200 days on the disabled list last year, and, while his team was winning the World Series, Tim Lincecum was starting as many games last October as Juan Marichal.

And that leaves two others, Ervin Santana and Francisco Rodriguez, who are, amazingly, still alive and well. But they also have changed teams a combined seven times since then.

So ? would you give a seven-year contract to any pitcher?

not any but i'd give it to scherzer… i would not have given it to shields or the red sox guy that went to oakland though…

i like the move… prices will just keep going up anyways…

hutch wrote:

i like the move… prices will just keep going up anyways…

Well, maybe only in DC because for the rest of the nation, ticket prices do not drive revenue.  TV deals do.  That's why until the MASN stuff gets sorted out, the Nats will have to defer payments to players to keep up with the Jones'.

I'm still not sure if I'd trade a starter or not.  Keep Zimmerman and Stras, win 105 games and hope for the best in the playoffs?  Trade Zimmerman and have Stras/Scherzer 1-2 punch for two years?  Trade Stras to get the best bang for your buck before their gutted in 2017?  Awesome decisions to make.

There's more money than ever in MLB. Tons. More than we can even wrap our heads around. Every team has it. Even the small market ones. If the money is there, spend it. The owner wants to sign the best pitcher available, so he does it. Fans get angry at a team maybe overspending long-term on a great player in a non-salary cap league? Makes no sense to me. By the time Scherzer's contract is up, some players could be making $50 million/season.

Obviously pitchers can (and do) breakdown. But man. Can't see why fans would be so up in arms about this.

Although the declaration that Scherzer will be opening day starter (over Strasburg and Zimmermann) was kind of interesting…

vansmack wrote:

hutch wrote:

i like the move… prices will just keep going up anyways…

Well, maybe only in DC because for the rest of the nation, ticket prices do not drive revenue.  TV deals do.  That's why until the MASN stuff gets sorted out, the Nats will have to defer payments to players to keep up with the Jones'.

I'm still not sure if I'd trade a starter or not.  Keep Zimmerman and Stras, win 105 games and hope for the best in the playoffs?  Trade Zimmerman and have Stras/Scherzer 1-2 punch for two years?  Trade Stras to get the best bang for your buck before their gutted in 2017?  Awesome decisions to make.

just to be clear I meant prices for quality players will just keep going up..

I would trade Strasburg if I could get something really good…a really good batter…. but otherwise what is the point?

I worry Strasburg will be plagued by injuries his whole career..i sort of think he's kinda damaged goods..

Nats need a good bat.

BookerT wrote:
There's more money than ever in MLB. Tons. More than we can even wrap our heads around. Every team has it. Even the small market ones. If the money is there, spend it. The owner wants to sign the best pitcher available, so he does it. Fans get angry at a team maybe overspending long-term on a great player in a non-salary cap league? Makes no sense to me. By the time Scherzer's contract is up, some players could be making $50 million/season.

Obviously pitchers can (and do) breakdown. But man. Can't see why fans would be so up in arms about this.

Although the declaration that Scherzer will be opening day starter (over Strasburg and Zimmermann) was kind of interesting…

Exactly!

As I have said before I think Smackie, whose opinion I very much respect, looks at it from the standpoint of the fantasy GM having to dish out the money…not the fan…

Why should I care that they spent a lot of money? I will enjoy watching Scherzer on TV this season!

hutch wrote:
I worry Strasburg will be plagued by injuries his whole career..i sort of think he's kinda damaged goods..

whats your basis for this? just curious cuz ive seen this same line echoed elsewhere and im not sure why strasburg has this reputation. he had the tommy john, like most pitchers these days, and a few minor "injuries" since then, missing a start here and there. nothing that justifies "damaged goods" imo.

agreed that theres no need to trade him but if the return is big enough, go for it. roark is a more than capable starter

pegging max as the opening day starter today struck me as kinda odd. id been wondering about this to myself, and of course its mostly just empty symbolism, but announcing it so far ahead of openign day seemed strange

hutch wrote:
Why should I care that they spent a lot of money?

Ask Phillies fans.

im not as on board with the signing as hutch (though im fast coming around) but the nats have a long way to go before even approaching philly levels of bad financial dealings

gaaaaaaaaah wrote:
im not as on board with the signing as hutch (though im fast coming around) but the nats have a long way to go before even approaching philly levels of bad financial dealings

The Nats have four unsigned Boras clients under control and two others they signed as free agents to record breaking deals or near record breaking deals.  I'm watching this space very closely as they are set for the next two seasons before all hell breaks loose. 

yes, unsigned. exactly

if they throw record breaking deals at all 4 then go ahead and gloat but its way too early to compare them to the phillies

I honestly feel like the team is trying to do anything it can to win one for the old man before he dies and the fans are going to suffer in the long run.

But it should be a helluva two years. 

vansmack wrote:
I honestly feel like the team is trying to do anything it can to win one for the old man before he dies and the fans are going to suffer in the long run.

But it should be a helluva two years. 

Hey, it worked for the Tige— ohhhhh… :(