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Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux

Nigel Tufnel
Joined: August 01, 2011 at 05:46 PM UTC
Posts: 116
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 10, 2014 at 11:32 PM UTC #
hutch wrote:
DeathFromAbove1979 wrote:
hutch wrote:
I dont think Jay Gruden should get a pass because its the team from Landover..

I mean he doesn't seem to have the answers no matter who is the quaterback!

With a starter with no poise in the pocket and 2 backups.

And an insanely porous defense to boot.


Then it was his job to identify these issues before the season, no?

I don't recall hearing him say "We're going to suck this year… RGIII blows and we have an insane porous defense.."

Or that the offensive line is inexistent

Somehow, I don't see Bellichik sucking week after week.. he makes, you know, adjustments? Finds players…changes things around….


Wait, so you honestly think that Gruden, before he had ever coached an NFL game, would have announced to the media that the team sucked and Griffin wasn't ready?  That seems unrealistic.

And Gruden may have identified the problems, but what is he supposed to do - it's Allen's job to pick the players (even though he has no personnel background).
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 10, 2014 at 11:42 PM UTC #
preposterous… are we to think that Gruden can do nothing with playcalling? had no say in what players made the team or practice squad? can't tell Bruce Allen "Hey there is this guy who just go released by such and such that might be able to help…"

To say Gruden bears no responsibility is ludicrous..he is the head coach..

kmdobrz
Joined: February 10, 2000 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 3373
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 12:17 AM UTC #
hutch wrote:
Somehow, I don't see Bellichik sucking week after week.. he makes, you know, adjustments? Finds players…changes things around….


How did Hoodie do in his first job with Cleveland?
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:07 AM UTC #
Shemp wrote:
hutch wrote:
Somehow, I don't see Bellichik sucking week after week.. he makes, you know, adjustments? Finds players…changes things around….


How did Hoodie do in his first job with Cleveland?


I'm going with the Hoodie of the past 10 or so years… you know, the one I think should be emulated…….the one who makes adjustments….finds new players seemingly every other week…that one…




jrpa
Joined: September 03, 2013 at 03:15 PM UTC
Posts: 29999
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:18 AM UTC #
hutch wrote:
Shemp wrote:
hutch wrote:
Somehow, I don't see Bellichik sucking week after week.. he makes, you know, adjustments? Finds players…changes things around….


How did Hoodie do in his first job with Cleveland?


I'm going with the Hoodie of the past 10 or so years… you know, the one I think should be emulated…….the one who makes adjustments….finds new players seemingly every other week…that one…





And so, to understand: you think he learned how to do that in the few years between his Cleveland and New England gigs?

There is only so much any coach can do. Football Jesus cannot win a Super Bowl with a crappy QB and virtually no defensive talent.

I'm not predisposed to think Gruden is an elite coaching talent but he's also definitely not the biggest (or second or third biggest) problem in Landover.
Nigel Tufnel
Joined: August 01, 2011 at 05:46 PM UTC
Posts: 116
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:44 AM UTC #
hutch wrote:
preposterous… are we to think that Gruden can do nothing with playcalling? had no say in what players made the team or practice squad? can't tell Bruce Allen "Hey there is this guy who just go released by such and such that might be able to help…"

To say Gruden bears no responsibility is ludicrous..he is the head coach..




Who said he had no responsibility?  I just think the blame lies mostly with Snyder.

If your point is just that Belichik is a better coach than Gruden…  well, no shit.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:45 AM UTC #
how do you know the QB sucks or the defense sucks?

but lets assume they "suck"..hopeless..nobody could do better with them

why would you go into the season with a QB that sucks and  a defense that sucks?

Or did you (Gruden) think they were better than they are? Why did you so underestimate your talent?

personally I think some of these results come from a combination of bad coaching and a team that has quit

hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:45 AM UTC #
Nigel wrote:
hutch wrote:
preposterous… are we to think that Gruden can do nothing with playcalling? had no say in what players made the team or practice squad? can't tell Bruce Allen "Hey there is this guy who just go released by such and such that might be able to help…"

To say Gruden bears no responsibility is ludicrous..he is the head coach..




Who said he had no responsibility?  I just think the blame lies mostly with Snyder.

If your point is just that Belichik is a better coach than Gruden…  well, no shit.


why Snyder? Because he picked the wrong coach?
jrpa
Joined: September 03, 2013 at 03:15 PM UTC
Posts: 29999
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 01:52 AM UTC #
hutch wrote:
how do you know the QB sucks or the defense sucks?

but lets assume they "suck"..hopeless..nobody could do better with them

why would you go into the season with a QB that sucks and  a defense that sucks?

Or did you (Gruden) think they were better than they are? Why did you so underestimate your talent?

personally I think some of these results come from a combination of bad coaching and a team that has quit


For me, it's Occam's razor. I find the prospect their is little talent on that team far higher than the prospect the last 4-5 landover coaches have all been uniformly so terrible they are taking a potential 11-win squad and getting them to, like, 4 wins annually. One coach is that terrible? Totally reasonable. Four or five in a row? Way less likely.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 02:42 AM UTC #
I thought the team looked fairly good on paper when the season started… am i missing something? didn't they add ryan clark (i think that is his name)…

were the preseason forecasts that they would be this bad and that they had no talent?
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 03:30 AM UTC #
They gave up three first round picks (and a second) to take a gamble on one player.  That road has been trod before (see Walker, Herschel). 

And comparing a first-time NFL coach with mid-career Belichick isn't really an even playing field.  And Gruden did express reservations about Griffin before and during the pre-season.  But his two bosses have bet the farm on Griffin, so yeah, Gruden's hands were actually tied on this.
hutch
Joined: Unknown
Posts: 0
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 12:15 PM UTC #
ggw wrote:
They gave up three first round picks (and a second) to take a gamble on one player.   That road has been trod before (see Walker, Herschel). 

And comparing a first-time NFL coach with mid-career Belichick isn't really an even playing field.  And Gruden did express reservations about Griffin before and during the pre-season.  But his two bosses have bet the farm on Griffin, so yeah, Gruden's hands were actually tied on this.


but that was years ago…

i am not saying they made a wise choice in trading all those picks but i don't recall anyone saying the team would be this bad before the season started… also, note that griffin and mccoy are both getting sacked like 6 times a game so i don't know that you can blame them for that… seems to me the offensive line is woeful…
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 12:42 PM UTC #
People, Hutch.  You've got to understand this isn't a problem with the coach or the qb or the o line.  This is an institutional sickness so deep and so ingrained that fixing one or two of the obvious problems will not solve this mess.  Sure a few band aids here and there might patch things up for a minute or two.  But remember, even in RGIII's rookie year, even after more success than anyone could have reasonably hoped for, the season ended with a wild out of control outhouse fire and everyone sitting around it pouring gasoline on the flames.  EVERYONE.

I used to think that eventually this team would hit bottom and that then they could finally start the long climb back up.  But now I know.  There is no bottom for this team.  No level of failure or humiliation is out of reach for them. 

Unless he has some sort of improbably profound awaking, this team will be a loser as long as Daniel Snyder owns it.  Sure you may have the occasional fluke ala 2012, but for the most part this team is done every year before the season even starts.
DeathFromAbove1979
Joined: November 29, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5038
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 02:19 PM UTC #
hutch wrote:
DeathFromAbove1979 wrote:
hutch wrote:
I dont think Jay Gruden should get a pass because its the team from Landover..

I mean he doesn't seem to have the answers no matter who is the quaterback!

With a starter with no poise in the pocket and 2 backups.

And an insanely porous defense to boot.


Then it was his job to identify these issues before the season, no?

I don't recall hearing him say "We're going to suck this year… RGIII blows and we have an insane porous defense.."

Or that the offensive line is inexistent

Somehow, I don't see Bellichik sucking week after week.. he makes, you know, adjustments? Finds players…changes things around….

Oh and their depth stinks. They have a ton of injuries too. Not to mention their huge left tackle Trent Williams is playing on a bum ankle and is not playing as himself.

Also, it's his first year and he inherited a mess. Just like Shannahan. At least Shannahan turned it around….once. I'm more willing to give Gruden another couple of seasons…. I guess that depends on how good next season is…..
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 08:23 PM UTC #
Gruden Names McCoy the Starter for Sunday

I think we can go ahead and start the pool on whether it's Griffin or Gruden who won't be in Landover next year.
DeathFromAbove1979
Joined: November 29, 2006 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5038
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 11, 2014 at 09:33 PM UTC #
My money is on Griff being gone.

Should have gotten a Ryan Kerrigan jersey… damn it…
chaz
Joined: December 09, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 5111
Re: Those Darned Redskins, Pt. Deux December 16, 2014 at 07:07 PM UTC #
My prediction is….

Gruden stays
Griffin stays
Allen stays

All present and accounted for for 2014 redux.  The same shit show all over again.  It's going to be epic.
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