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DC Area Voters

vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:20 PM UTC #
Originally posted by -kat-:
and the dems are fucked if whomever gets nominated doesn't pick Edwards as a runningmate.
To steal a quote from my friend Venerable, "Good lord."

I'm going to regret asking this, but on what basis?
callat703
Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1710
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:33 PM UTC #
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by -kat-:
and the dems are fucked if whomever gets nominated doesn't pick Edwards as a runningmate.
To steal a quote from my friend Venerable, "Good lord."

I'm going to regret asking this, but on what basis?
I agree - I think that's crazy talk.

I've been thinking the past few days about the superdelegate scenario. From the analysis that I've read, it seems virtually certain - minus ENORMOUS gains by Clinton - that Obama is going to go into the convention with a lead in the delegate count, and most likely, the popular vote. I've also seen analysis that indicates that it is virtually impossible for either of them to clinch the nomination before the convention. The question is whether or not Clinton can wrap up enough primaries to make it close, and thus sway the superdelegates to support her as a more surefire candidate.

I don't think that is going to happen - I would estimate that Obama is going to extend his delegate lead and compete in Ohio and Texas. That would mean he is approaching the convention with a definitive lead.

That said - what if the superdelegates give it to Hillary Clinton? There have been a few stories on this of late - but personally? I think it would absolutely destroy the Democratic Party. I don't know that I'd vote for a Democrat again if the superdelegates overturned what appears to be the popular opinion (even if, I'd note, it went in my favor as an Obama supporter and the roles were reversed).

Now here is my hypothetical: let's say that the superdelegates give it to Hillary Clinton, despite Obama's lead in the popular vote and in the delegate count. If that happens, does Obama split from the party and run as an independent? I think there would be an overwhelming push for this coming out of his organization and support base. And if so, does he immediately create a viable third party?
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:38 PM UTC #
If the superdelegates end up overturning the voice of the people, I too will not vote for a Democrat in the general election.

No, I don't think Barack would run as an independent. Though I have nothing to base that on other than my gut.
manimtired
Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1432
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:41 PM UTC #
get ready not to vote for a democrat again then…
Rhett Miller
Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 17762
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:49 PM UTC #
I've voted Dukakis, Clinton, Nader, Nader, and Kerry. I'm accustomed to not having voted for the winner. I think I may have even voted for Jesse Jackson in a primary, but was probably really drunk at the time.

Originally posted by manimtired:
get ready not to vote for a democrat again then…
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:58 PM UTC #
Callat, the scenario you've laid out has been worrying me for some time. I too would feel very disenfranchised by the party if they did this. It would go against everything I've been warning the Dems about this entire Primary season. Right now, I'm going by the assumption that the Dems in charge (not least of which, the Clinton's) wouldn't let that happen.

If it did, I too would leave the party, but I'm still 95% convinced it won't happen. It will make '68 look like a tea party.
callat703
Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1710
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 05:59 PM UTC #
Originally posted by vansmack:
Callat, the scenario you've laid out has been worrying me for some time. I too would feel very disenfranchised by the party if they did this. It would go against everything I've been warning the Dems about this entire Primary season. Right now, I'm going by the assumption that the Dems in charge (not least of which, the Clinton's) wouldn't let that happen.

If it did, I too would leave the party, but I'm still 95% convinced it won't happen. It will make '68 look like a tea party.
Agreed. I don't think it is going to happen - the party brass MUST recognize what it would do to them. But I still think it is possible.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 07:03 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Obama is just creaming Hillary. You know, all these primaries, you know. And Hillary says itâ??s not fair, because theyâ??re being held in February, and February is Black History Month. And unfortunately for Hillary, thereâ??s no White Bitch Month.
Somebody either watches Penn Jilette's stand-up routine or reads Maureen Dowd's column.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 07:13 PM UTC #
Originally posted by edbert:
So, is Hillary gonna play the crying card again a day or two before Texas/Ohio primaries? Or is that one spent?
The crying card is shot. Now she is having her lackeys break out the "America won't elect a black man" card.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23134717/?GT1=10856

Note that Rendell's statement was released 15 minutes after Obama was declared the big winner of the Virginia primary.

The reemergence of the assassination card can't be far behind.
ggw
Joined: December 16, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 14237
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 07:22 PM UTC #
Originally posted by callat703:
Now here is my hypothetical: let's say that the superdelegates give it to Hillary Clinton, despite Obama's lead in the popular vote and in the delegate count. If that happens, does Obama split from the party and run as an independent? I think there would be an overwhelming push for this coming out of his organization and support base. And if so, does he immediately create a viable third party?
Obama probably would not jump to a third party because it would burn all his bridges to the Democrat's establishment. He is young enough to take the hit and come back in four or eight years.


There was a movement to create a viable third party in the works. www.Unity08.org It got shut down (for all intents and purposes) by the FEC and the two major parties.

I heard the pitch from a couple of the founders and it was an impressive (and not too unrealistic) idea. It had legs for a while, but the other parties made ballot access impossible and then the FEC cut off their start up money.

Ain't politics grand?
ratioci nation
Joined: November 22, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4463
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 07:43 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Obama probably would not jump to a third party because it would burn all his bridges to the Democrat's establishment. He is young enough to take the hit and come back in four or eight years.
Take it for what its worth, but Michelle Obama insists that if Barack loses he will not run again.
Mobius
Joined: March 28, 2002 at 06:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1371
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 07:55 PM UTC #
Obama is a new paradigm and his momentum feels (to a DC dem sheltered from 'the real world') like a tidal wave wiping out all that came before it - similar to Clinton in '92 who represented a fresh new paradigm that obliterated the Nixon-Reagan-Bush era (which amazingly returned stronger than ever when he left office). Now, the Clintons (and of course McCain) are the old guard and everything they represent just seems so tired (to me at least).

Meanwhile, Obama really does embody the best of America. Also, its not emphasized that he taught Constitutional Law at Chicago . . . what better experience do we need than a preeminent expert on the foundation of our country?

No matter what happens in the election, its awesome to see his message expressed, because people are listening and getting inspired and that is a very powerful result even if the old guard retains the White House.
godsshoeshine
Joined: September 18, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 4826
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:03 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by edbert:
So, is Hillary gonna play the crying card again a day or two before Texas/Ohio primaries? Or is that one spent?
The crying card is shot. Now she is having her lackeys break out the "America won't elect a black man" card.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23134717/?GT1=10856

Note that Rendell's statement was released 15 minutes after Obama was declared the big winner of the Virginia primary.

The reemergence of the assassination card can't be far behind.
rendell should just stick to dinner: impossible
manimtired
Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1432
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:19 PM UTC #
Originally posted by Mobius:
Obama is a new paradigm and his momentum feels (to a DC dem sheltered from 'the real world') like a tidal wave wiping out all that came before it - similar to Clinton in '92 who represented a fresh new paradigm that obliterated the Nixon-Reagan-Bush era (which amazingly returned stronger than ever when he left office). Now, the Clintons (and of course McCain) are the old guard and everything they represent just seems so tired (to me at least).

Meanwhile, Obama really does embody the best of America. Also, its not emphasized that he taught Constitutional Law at Chicago . . . what better experience do we need than a preeminent expert on the foundation of our country?

No matter what happens in the election, its awesome to see his message expressed, because people are listening and getting inspired and that is a very powerful result even if the old guard retains the White House.
god i hope youre joking..the man is a bloated bag of empty rhetoric.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:32 PM UTC #
Originally posted by manimtired:
god i hope youre joking..the man is a bloated bag of empty rhetoric.
I hope the Republicans underestimate him the same way that you are.

If worked well for the Clinton team…
manimtired
Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1432
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:33 PM UTC #
no..ross perot worked well for the clinton team.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:37 PM UTC #
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by edbert:
[qb] Now she is having her lackeys break out the "America won't elect a black man" card.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23134717/?GT1=10856

I agree with Ed Rendell. There were many Republicans in PA who did not vote for Lynn Swann simply because he's black. That's essentially what he's saying, right?

What an idiot to make a parallel between Swann and Obama. Statements like that will hurt Clinton.
vansmack
Joined: October 04, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 19725
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:38 PM UTC #
Originally posted by manimtired:
no..ross perot worked well for the clinton team.
Wrong Clinton team. Try to keep up.
manimtired
Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC
Posts: 1432
Re: DC Area Voters February 14, 2008 at 08:45 PM UTC #
you should be more clear..b/c you could say that of bill too. try to be more clear..
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