DC Area Voters — 930 Forums

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:02 PM UTC #

<img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/618KSVZ8K5L._SS500_.jpg" alt=" - " />

Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of red Indian boy
Oh like a Curly Latin kinkies
Oh Lordy, Lordy, mixed with yellow Chinkees, yeah
You know you lump it all together
And you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score

Rabbis and the friars
Vishnus and the gurus
We got the Beatles or the Sun God
Well it really doesn't matter what religion you choose
And be thankful little Mrs. Graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin machine
I think I'll call up the queen
It' s only fair that she knows, you know, you know

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score

manimtired

Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1432

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:07 PM UTC #

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

nevertheless, i think kurtz is right in that obama never truly distances himself from wright and his fantasies, but by rationalizing them via white concerns about other races. why should either be rationalized- the fact is there are people who are perfectly happy keeping race in the political discussion and not moving on, that is what obama has to address.
Well, I think the point - which I happen to agree with - is that these issues can't be solved by ignoring them and keeping them out of the discourse.
fair enough. my whole point is that someone who represents the black community has to make a stand and say race an outdated construct. . .that people who keeping bringing it up are not being constructive, but are only increasing people's desire to not discuss it. as is evident by bill clinton and geraldine ferraro, even a liberal white man and woman can't make those statements without being called racist.

course, i may be colorblind, but i do see class.
I think that you're right - but can't we do that while acknowledging that most people still do see race? Obama says as much in his speech - that he isn't foolish enough to think that he can erase race as a construct simply by virtue of his candidacy or presidency, but rather, that he can move us towards that reality.

It is a hard conversation, and that's what makes this such an amazing, brave speech to me.

It was an act of political necessity, not bravery.

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:14 PM UTC #

Originally posted by manimtired:

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
[qb]
Originally posted by callat703:
[qb]
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

[qb]
It is a hard conversation, and that's what makes this such an amazing, brave speech to me.
It was an act of political necessity, not bravery.
Exactly…it wouldn't have been said at all had it not been for recent events regarding his spiritual leader.

callat703

Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1710

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:19 PM UTC #

Originally posted by manimtired:
It was an act of political necessity, not bravery.

You really think that it was an act of political necessity for him to speak on this in the way that he did? Most politicians would have thrown the pastor under the bus and moved on despite the backlash that would have resulted. Instead, he took on the bigger issue - and that is a brave move indeed.

callat703

Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1710

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:20 PM UTC #

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

Originally posted by callat703:
I think that you're right - but can't we do that while acknowledging that most people still do see race? Obama says as much in his speech - that he isn't foolish enough to think that he can erase race as a construct simply by virtue of his candidacy or presidency, but rather, that he can move us towards that reality.

It is a hard conversation, and that's what makes this such an amazing, brave speech to me.
maybe it's because my perception of the race issue is different that others, but i would have much preferred obama directly taking on those who would rather inject race (and victimization) into every conversation or at least race-based objections, instead of trying to rationalize it across the board. yes, it's a difficult conversation, but i really do wonder the desire of some people to want to move forward- that's what i would have liked him to address.

anyway, i appreciate this discussion- i certainly do not want to belabor this particular nuance, because i think we'll simply end up at agree to disagree.

Agreed.

manimtired

Joined: June 05, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1432

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:21 PM UTC #

he has too much of a history with his pastor to simply "throw him overboard" at this point.

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:25 PM UTC #

Originally posted by manimtired:
he has too much of a history with his pastor to simply "throw him overboard" at this point.

Besides, that would've made him a Clinton clone.

Rhett Miller

Joined: November 15, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC

Posts: 17762

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:26 PM UTC #

Kind of like Silda Spritzer?

Originally posted by manimtired:
he has too much of a history with his pastor to simply "throw him overboard" at this point.

raebyddet

Joined: February 11, 2003 at 06:01 AM UTC

Posts: 97

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:29 PM UTC #

"Incidentally: If you want to talk about contrasts, itâ??s amazing that on the same network featuring Buchanan, Sally Quinn did a great job this morning, as the networks were killing time waiting for Obama to arrive on stage, pointing out all the incendiary and unacceptable statements that preachers from Jesse Jackson to Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell to Billy Graham, have made over the yearsâ?¦and the absence of any real expectation that the white politicians who relied on their support give a major speech denouncing them and reflecting on race or religion in American politics."

Tom Schaller

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=03&year=2008&base_name=we_the_people#105120

godsshoeshine

Joined: September 18, 2003 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4826

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:31 PM UTC #

Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
]I wasn't looking for the fucking speech, I was trying to find out his news outlet of choice.

glad you read it

i like real clear, but i dont really have a news outlet of choice. i suppose the post if you really made me choose, as i get it on sundays

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 08:34 PM UTC #

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Kind of like Silda Spritzer?

Originally posted by manimtired:
he has too much of a history with his pastor to simply "throw him overboard" at this point.

No, that's a case of 'it's cheaper to keep her'

But…if you want juicy political scandal, this one is tough to beat, and she's not bad for a politicians wife…better than your usual frumpy lard-arsed old wagon.

http://gawker.com/5003912/new-jersey-governor-threesome-one+ups-spitzer

bags

Joined: October 30, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC

Posts: 8545

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 09:28 PM UTC #

Originally posted by manimtired:

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
The American economy is in free fall, and all anyone cares about is what some religious nut says about race. I'll bet Bush's pastor told some crock and bull story about Jesus dying on the cross and rising up to heaven. Why weren't people up in arms about that?
edgy

Worse. GW's pastor was telling the story about the dawn of man, 6000 years ago.

But he can't be a crackpot – there's a museum in Kentucky that shows early man swimming in a lake with dinosaurs!!

BookerT

Joined: October 30, 2001 at 06:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1410

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 09:55 PM UTC #

as with everything, this is blown a bit out of proporation as the never-ending primary continues to devolve into the current game of "find people associated with the candidates who say different levels incedniary things and make it into a story" becomes the norm. this holds more weight because obama's lack of any real record to run on makes his associations all the more relevant, but it's still not something i can get too riled up about and after avoiding it as long as he could avoid it he addressed it pretty well in his usual "these aren't the droids you're looking for" sort of way.

but i'm not your average voter and y'all are crazy if you think this isn't going to be a FUCKING HUGE problem for him in the general election. hillary's mumbo jumbo about her already being vetted and him not being vetted actually looks a bit more prescient right now.

callat703

Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1710

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:02 PM UTC #

Originally posted by BookerT:
as with everything, this is blown a bit out of proporation as the never-ending primary continues to devolve into the current game of "find people associated with the candidates who say different levels incedniary things and make it into a story" becomes the norm. this holds more weight because obama's lack of any real record to run on makes his associations all the more relevant, but it's still not something i can get too riled up about and after avoiding it as long as he could avoid it he addressed it pretty well in his usual "these aren't the droids you're looking for" sort of way.

but i'm not your average voter and y'all are crazy if you think this isn't going to be a FUCKING HUGE problem for him in the general election. hillary's mumbo jumbo about her already being vetted and him not being vetted actually looks a bit more prescient right now.

But this is part of why this speech is so brilliant. He's recast the discussion. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are now both forced to discuss race on this level - and do we honestly think either of them can do that?

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:17 PM UTC #

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by BookerT:
but i'm not your average voter and y'all are crazy if you think this isn't going to be a FUCKING HUGE problem for him in the general election. hillary's mumbo jumbo about her already being vetted and him not being vetted actually looks a bit more prescient right now.
But this is part of why this speech is so brilliant. He's recast the discussion. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are now both forced to discuss race on this level - and do we honestly think either of them can do that?

If they're smart they won't say a word. What is there to discuss? He didn't say anything earth-shattering or life changing.

and Booker is spot on…if Obama ends up as the democrat candidate then the dems are fucked, because the republicans will crucify him over this issue.

Game, set and match to McCain unless Hillary can pull some miracle between now and November.

callat703

Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1710

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:20 PM UTC #

Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by BookerT:
but i'm not your average voter and y'all are crazy if you think this isn't going to be a FUCKING HUGE problem for him in the general election. hillary's mumbo jumbo about her already being vetted and him not being vetted actually looks a bit more prescient right now.
But this is part of why this speech is so brilliant. He's recast the discussion. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are now both forced to discuss race on this level - and do we honestly think either of them can do that?
If they're smart they won't say a word. What is there to discuss? He didn't say anything earth-shattering or life changing.

and Booker is spot on…if Obama ends up as the democrat candidate then the dems are fucked, because the republicans will crucify him over this issue.

Game, set and match to McCain unless Hillary can pull some miracle between now and November.

I think you're wrong. It is largely going to depend on the media coverage of today's speech from this point forward, but I think they won't have a choice as to whether or not to talk about it. You don't think this becomes a question in any debate from this point forward? Obama can get on the stump from this point on and incorporate this discussion in his platform.

Venerable Bede

Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 3863

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:28 PM UTC #

Originally posted by callat703:
I think you're wrong. It is largely going to depend on the media coverage of today's speech from this point forward, but I think they won't have a choice as to whether or not to talk about it. You don't think this becomes a question in any debate from this point forward? Obama can get on the stump from this point on and incorporate this discussion in his platform.

i had been trying to avoid this, but. . .i think this is only an issue in the democratic party. because the race-baiters have been so vocal over these past years, republicans either don't say anything or ignore the baiters and call them what they are- then get skewered by black pastors and liberal news media as heartless whiteys. i believe that much of this country wants to move past a race discussion, but the baiters don't want to, since it gets them so much media. it's so much easier to blame someone or something else for your own problems.

callat703

Joined: May 25, 2005 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 1710

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:31 PM UTC #

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

Originally posted by callat703:
I think you're wrong. It is largely going to depend on the media coverage of today's speech from this point forward, but I think they won't have a choice as to whether or not to talk about it. You don't think this becomes a question in any debate from this point forward? Obama can get on the stump from this point on and incorporate this discussion in his platform.
i had been trying to avoid this, but. . .i think this is only an issue in the democratic party. because the race-baiters have been so vocal over these past years, republicans either don't say anything or ignore the baiters and call them what they are- then get skewered by black pastors and liberal news media as heartless whiteys. i believe that much of this country wants to move past a race discussion, but the baiters don't want to, since it gets them so much media. it's so much easier to blame someone or something else for your own problems.

This is the same discussion we just agreed to disagree on :)

lwoxley

Joined: October 06, 2004 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 4792

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:41 PM UTC #

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by BookerT:
but i'm not your average voter and y'all are crazy if you think this isn't going to be a FUCKING HUGE problem for him in the general election. hillary's mumbo jumbo about her already being vetted and him not being vetted actually looks a bit more prescient right now.
But this is part of why this speech is so brilliant. He's recast the discussion. Hillary Clinton and John McCain are now both forced to discuss race on this level - and do we honestly think either of them can do that?
If they're smart they won't say a word. What is there to discuss? He didn't say anything earth-shattering or life changing.

and Booker is spot on…if Obama ends up as the democrat candidate then the dems are fucked, because the republicans will crucify him over this issue.

Game, set and match to McCain unless Hillary can pull some miracle between now and November.
I think you're wrong. It is largely going to depend on the media coverage of today's speech from this point forward, but I think they won't have a choice as to whether or not to talk about it. You don't think this becomes a question in any debate from this point forward? Obama can get on the stump from this point on and incorporate this discussion in his platform.

I'm sure the right leaning media will try to put him away becuase he stood by his bigoted pastor, and the liberals compare it to MLK's "I have a dream" so one will cancel out the other as usual.

Venerable Bede

Joined: October 16, 2001 at 05:01 AM UTC

Posts: 3863

Re: DC Area Voters March 18, 2008 at 10:51 PM UTC #

Originally posted by callat703:

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:

Originally posted by callat703:
I think you're wrong. It is largely going to depend on the media coverage of today's speech from this point forward, but I think they won't have a choice as to whether or not to talk about it. You don't think this becomes a question in any debate from this point forward? Obama can get on the stump from this point on and incorporate this discussion in his platform.
i had been trying to avoid this, but. . .i think this is only an issue in the democratic party. because the race-baiters have been so vocal over these past years, republicans either don't say anything or ignore the baiters and call them what they are- then get skewered by black pastors and liberal news media as heartless whiteys. i believe that much of this country wants to move past a race discussion, but the baiters don't want to, since it gets them so much media. it's so much easier to blame someone or something else for your own problems.
This is the same discussion we just agreed to disagree on :)

i know, i know. . i couldn't help chiming in.