I've said this on here a ton of times but I'll say it again: Democrats think swing-voters or suburbanites or whatever are inherently socially quite liberal and financially a bit conservative, and the reality is they're socially quite conservative and financially liberal.
Please Vote!
sweetcell wrote:Starsky wrote:
CRT is not just a huge turnoff to most whites.
the only thing that turns me off of CRT is the fact that the right has turned something that ISN"T BEING TAUGHT into a winning issue for them.
News flash you ain’t most whites Jack…. if you don’t get this you are the reason Democrats are going to get shellacked in November.
Come on man.
Julian, wrote:
I've said this on here a ton of times but I'll say it again: Democrats think swing-voters or suburbanites or whatever are inherently socially quite liberal and financially a bit conservative, and the reality is they're socially quite conservative and financially liberal.
Ok I get the socially part….totally agree
But what do you mean by financially liberal? What is that?
Starsky wrote:sweetcell wrote:Starsky wrote:
CRT is not just a huge turnoff to most whites.
the only thing that turns me off of CRT is the fact that the right has turned something that ISN"T BEING TAUGHT into a winning issue for them.
News flash you ain’t most whites Jack…. if you don’t get this you are the reason Democrats are going to get shellacked in November.
Come on man.
never said i was most whites. not sure where you got that.
Starsky wrote:you heard it here first, we now have a fall guy for the dismal showing for dems in 2022
News flash you ain’t most whites Jack…. if you don’t get this you are the reason Democrats are going to get shellacked in November.
Starsky wrote:
But what do you mean by financially liberal? What is that?
Kinda thought the same thing…sounds like someone who has one of those bill guns to 'make it rain'
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Starsky wrote:Like take an Elizabeth Warren idea and water it down 20% and it generally will poll quite well. The elements of the Affordable Care Act: poll quite well. A single payer option: polls quite well. Increased minimum wage: polls quite well. Class warfare in general: polls quite well.
But what do you mean by financially liberal? What is that?
My point is Dems think middle of the road voters deep down want transgender bathrooms bills passed but face an internal conflict on who to vote for because they also want lower taxes . . . when, in reality, what they want is to never have to think about racism but are, in fact, quite down with massively higher corporate taxes and infrastructure and jobs spending and things that put more money in their pocket.
The Dems lost white-working-class voters when they stopped acting like that group had economic challenges to address and started talking about how privileged they are compared to African-Americans or Latinos. (Then they lost Latinos when they started calling them Latinx, a thing none of them asked for.)
Starsky wrote:
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Are Bernie supporters really the CRT and scream racism and transgender bathroom people? I thought Bernie people were people who are more about fighting for the working people, ala Julian's post that follows yours.
Space wrote:While I don't think the venn diagram of those two groups is a single circle, there's significant overlap in my opinion. Go find a CRT/transgender bathroom person and ask them their thoughts on Joe Biden vs. Sanders/Warren and tell us what you come up with.Starsky wrote:
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Are Bernie supporters really the CRT and scream racism and transgender bathroom people? I thought Bernie people were people who are more about fighting for the working people, ala Julian's post that follows yours.
Julian, wrote:Space wrote:While I don't think the venn diagram of those two groups is a single circle, there's significant overlap in my opinion. Go find a CRT/transgender bathroom person and ask them their thoughts on Joe Biden vs. Sanders/Warren and tell us what you come up with.Starsky wrote:
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Are Bernie supporters really the CRT and scream racism and transgender bathroom people? I thought Bernie people were people who are more about fighting for the working people, ala Julian's post that follows yours.
I dunno. My wife considers herself TERF sympathetic, supports racial equity but think Dems sometimes take racial stuff too far, wears a Bernie hoodie, and thinks Biden is too middle of the road in terms of financial class equity. Is she atypical?
I would say she is atypical just on the fact that she at some point in her life found you compelling and attractive.
Space wrote:Julian, wrote:Space wrote:While I don't think the venn diagram of those two groups is a single circle, there's significant overlap in my opinion. Go find a CRT/transgender bathroom person and ask them their thoughts on Joe Biden vs. Sanders/Warren and tell us what you come up with.Starsky wrote:
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Are Bernie supporters really the CRT and scream racism and transgender bathroom people? I thought Bernie people were people who are more about fighting for the working people, ala Julian's post that follows yours.
I dunno. My wife considers herself TERF sympathetic, supports racial equity but think Dems sometimes take racial stuff too far, wears a Bernie hoodie, and thinks Biden is too middle of the road in terms of financial class equity. Is she atypical?
Space wrote:Let me just make sure I have this clear: you would like us to sound off on if your wife, Celeste, is a person we consider atypical writ large?
Is she atypical?
jeffml wrote:I would feel badly for Space, but here's been here long enough to know not to throw this chum in the water.
I would say she is atypical just on the fact that she at some point in her life found you compelling and attractive.
Space wrote:Joke aside, yeah, man, I think your wife (and to some extent yourself as well) quite prides herself on being iconoclastic and not easily shoehorned into an archetypes and that applies on this topic as much as it does with her takes on . . . *gestures at every subject you've ever shared with us*.Julian, wrote:Space wrote:While I don't think the venn diagram of those two groups is a single circle, there's significant overlap in my opinion. Go find a CRT/transgender bathroom person and ask them their thoughts on Joe Biden vs. Sanders/Warren and tell us what you come up with.Starsky wrote:
Yeah the fall guy will be white liberals who don’t understand America… white liberals who are far wealthier than 80% of white Americans and think they give a shit about CRT…
You know…Bernie supporters…these people continually trying to move America as far left as they can as fast as they can…
Are Bernie supporters really the CRT and scream racism and transgender bathroom people? I thought Bernie people were people who are more about fighting for the working people, ala Julian's post that follows yours.
I dunno. My wife considers herself TERF sympathetic, supports racial equity but think Dems sometimes take racial stuff too far, wears a Bernie hoodie, and thinks Biden is too middle of the road in terms of financial class equity. Is she atypical?
Julian, wrote:Space wrote:Let me just make sure I have this clear: you would like us to sound off on if your wife, Celeste, is a person we consider atypical writ large?
Is she atypical?
No, I meant are her politics atypical. Meaning she's a champion of the working class like Bernie, but doesn't really identify with all the identity politics of the Left. (and that doesn't make her racist.)
Space wrote:Regardless, Celeste is not who I, or really anyone, has in mind when they talk about a middle-of-the-road voter or a swing voter. I feel she's a pretty solid Democratic voter, yeah?
No, I meant are her politics atypical. Meaning she's a champion of the working class like Bernie, but doesn't really identify with all the identity politics of the Left. (and that doesn't make her racist.)
Julian, wrote:Space wrote:Regardless, Celeste is not who I, or really anyone, has in mind when they talk about a middle-of-the-road voter or a swing voter. I feel she's a pretty solid Democratic voter, yeah?
No, I meant are her politics atypical. Meaning she's a champion of the working class like Bernie, but doesn't really identify with all the identity politics of the Left. (and that doesn't make her racist.)
Yes, solidly Democratic. Democratic Socialist even. But more in line with working class issues than gender and racial identity issues.
Space wrote:OK, well, yeah, a Democratic Socialist is probably atypical by default. But regardless, what Celeste is or isn't doesn't speak to the correctness (or incorrectness) of the "Julian theory" of what a swing voter looks like.Julian, wrote:Space wrote:Regardless, Celeste is not who I, or really anyone, has in mind when they talk about a middle-of-the-road voter or a swing voter. I feel she's a pretty solid Democratic voter, yeah?
No, I meant are her politics atypical. Meaning she's a champion of the working class like Bernie, but doesn't really identify with all the identity politics of the Left. (and that doesn't make her racist.)
Yes, solidly Democratic. Democratic Socialist even. But more in line with working class issues than gender and racial identity issues.
I don’t trust polling on this….it’s all in how you ask the question etc
People in America on average are fairly libertarian on economic issues: keep the government off of my back (taxes low) and let me keep my hard earned money.
People in America on average are fairly libertarian on economic issues: keep the government off of my back (taxes low) and let me keep my hard earned money.
Julian, wrote:Space wrote:OK, well, yeah, a Democratic Socialist is probably atypical by default. But regardless, what Celeste is or isn't doesn't speak to the correctness (or incorrectness) of the "Julian theory" of what a swing voter looks like.Julian, wrote:Space wrote:Regardless, Celeste is not who I, or really anyone, has in mind when they talk about a middle-of-the-road voter or a swing voter. I feel she's a pretty solid Democratic voter, yeah?
No, I meant are her politics atypical. Meaning she's a champion of the working class like Bernie, but doesn't really identify with all the identity politics of the Left. (and that doesn't make her racist.)
Yes, solidly Democratic. Democratic Socialist even. But more in line with working class issues than gender and racial identity issues.
And I guess my theory is that a white working class swing voter would be likely to be enthusiastic about Bernie's agenda, if they didn't have Fox News telling them Bernie is a Communist.