Belly up, fired, and retired

Obviously we can try to help people out of the kindness of our hearts. I hope we do.


But what we owed them we paid them: a very nice salary for one of the best jobs in Afghanistan. A privileged position.

Let’s not buy into the idea that every Afghani clinging to a plane trying to take off is an Afghani translator that put their life on the line for us!

Weren’t many trying to create a better nation for themselves?

We announced we were leaving last year? None of them made plans? They have no money saved? They thought we would fly them out first class and get them jobs? They didn’t notice the taliban taking over all over? This didn’t all happen yesterday you know?

Julian, wrote:

Starsky wrote:
We owe Afghani translators more than Americans in Baltimore?


Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit and go walk around West Baltimore before talking any further

Perhaps we can owe more than one group of people something simultaneously. Sweets did not say “we owe afghani translators MORE than we owe our own citizens.” This is idea that there’s some highly finite amount of kindness we have to dole out and anything we give to group A is good off the table of group B is a fallacy.

When we manage to take care of Baltimore let’s talk…cause it’s something we have not been able to do

We do not have infinite resources partly because of all the money we wasted in Afghanistan

Starsky wrote:
We announced we were leaving last year? None of them made plans? They have no money saved? They thought we would fly them out first class and get them jobs? They didn’t notice the taliban taking over all over? This didn’t all happen yesterday you know?

OK, fine, you’ve convinced me: your visa application to Julian’s America is approved.

This reminds me of people on Facebook today trying to raise money for affected pets in Afghanistan… I couldn’t believe it

My guess is many translators…the ones we found to do the best job or who established particularly close relationships with American counterparts… have been flown out. They will be useful to our country.

Starsky wrote:
But what we owed them we paid them: a very nice salary for one of the best jobs in Afghanistan. A privileged position.

 
in many cases they were promised protection.  i take it you don't appreciate the value of human intel, on the ground.  US troops landed in the middle of outer space and the knowledge and insights, in addition to translation services, literally saved US soldiers' lives.  afghanistan would have been an even bigger shitshow than it already was without local help - who risked their lives doing so.

someday the US is going to get itself in another mess like this one, and we'll desperately need locals' help.  we need a better advance marketing campaign then "hope you enjoyed the paycheck, best of luck with those death squads!"

Starsky wrote:
Let’s not buy into the idea that every Afghani clinging to a plane trying to take off is an Afghani translator that put their life on the line for us!

 
once again, you're arguing against something that no one said.  but please, fight on…

Starsky wrote:
We announced we were leaving last year? None of them made plans? They have no money saved?

 
how can you make plans when you're dirt poor?  "no money saved" - what money?  translators were not paid that well.  they could feed their families, maybe save up a few hundred - where the hell is that going to get you?  unless you have millions to throw around, money isn't going to get you into the US (at least not legally). 

Starsky wrote:
They thought we would fly them out first class and get them jobs?

 
once again, you're arguing against something that no one said.  but please, fight on…

Starsky wrote:
They didn’t notice the taliban taking over all over? This didn’t all happen yesterday you know?

 
a heavily-armed ARMY against a bunch of peasants who can't afford an axe - you tell me how that fight is going to go.  anyone seen cooperating with the americans was a target for execution (you should look up how many cadets and police recruits were killed).  the central afghan government didn't have control of Kabul, let alone the countryside. 

Ok bro trust me when I tell you that in poor countries there will always be people lining up to work for the United States of America. And in places like Afghanistan there will always be people sharing information (both ways) for money

You’re reaching badly…

I get it’s a human tragedy in Afghanistan and that sucks but it was a tragedy before we got there and will be long after we are gone. And there obviously ain’t much we can do about that….but accept it.

However I agree we should try and help as many Afghanis as we can….within our possibilities…but not because we owe them but because it’s the human thing - and even, yes, the right thing to do

So I don’t see our positions as that different..although we have different ideas maybe…I just take exception to being told we owe them…in my view the American government owes the American people and needs to focus at home… the conditions in West Baltimore aren’t that different from many developing countries!

Starsky wrote:
My guess is many translators…the ones we found to do the best job or who established particularly close relationships with American counterparts… have been flown out. They will be useful to our country.

you would be incorrect.  the backlog for applications is YEARS: "Even so, more than 18,000 applicants in Afghanistan alone are awaiting decisions on their applications, with an average family size of four. Most of them have been waiting for at least four years, despite Congress directing the government to process their visa applications in nine months or less." (link).  biden promised to speed up visa processing and sending extra staff to make this happen, but that's all moot now that the embassy in kabul is shuttered.  that's a true source of embarrassment in this fiasco, not the withdrawal itself.

there are several charitable organizations started by vets that support and advocate for the repatriation of interpreters (Ex: https://nooneleft.org/).  why would these organizations exist if all the good ones have already been flown out?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/world/afghan-interpreter-us-military.html
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/29/1021235878/waiting-for-u-s-visas-afghan-interpreters-fear-the-taliban

Starsky wrote:
Ok bro trust me when I tell you that in poor countries there will always be people lining up to work for the United States of America. And in places like Afghanistan there will always be people sharing information (both ways) for money

You’re reaching badly…

I get it’s a human tragedy in Afghanistan and that sucks but it was a tragedy before we got there and will be long after we are gone. And there obviously ain’t much we can do about that….but accept it.

However I agree we should try and help as many Afghanis as we can….within our possibilities…but not because we owe them but because it’s the human thing - and even, yes, the right thing to do

So I don’t see our positions as that different..although we have different ideas maybe…I just take exception to being told we owe them…in my view the American government owes the American people and needs to focus at home… the conditions in West Baltimore aren’t that different from many developing countries!

interpreters put their lives on the line to help the US (and in many cases were told that after X months/years of service they will be granted visas, since they can no longer live in Afghanistan because they helped us).  yes, we owe THESE people.

you are continuously conflating interpreters with the general afghani population.  no one here has said that every single afghani should be given a visa, so please stop making that "argument".

FYI saying that we should help americans in financial need instead of our international allies is a very MAGA argument ("america first!!!").  as jules pointed out, we can do both - easily.  hell, just to stir the pot: those interpreters actually helped us, they did something.  what have those folks in west baltimore done recently to improve our collective lot??? (no, i don't believe that for a single second, just trying to illustrate how specious your argument is).

I said the best


Are you saying we should ship out 18,000 translators? And their families and extended families?


Yeah sorry can’t do that…


You don’t get an automatic winning lottery ticket all expenses paid to the US for working for the US in a paid capacity.


The best? Yes
The ones who really helped out? Yes

But every single “translator” and their family? No.


Also I think you are using this to mean something other than translator. My dad translated between Jimmy Carter and General Videla. That’s a translator.

You seem to mean more like helper/gopher or something

Ugh it’s called citizenship…they are Americans and we live in a country purportedly at least that is of the people, by the people and for the people.

This is really a weird point to hang your hat on.

This is where liberals get in trouble…the let’s save the world it will be great…kumbaya

Focus on Americans in this country who are hurting. I know many of you are doing great but the last 20 years have been one kick in the gut after another for many Americans. DMV and Seattle are not what most Americans are or have been experiencing. And no we can’t do everything at the same time.

If we don’t focus on Americans we will find Dictator Trump in charge. Just the idea of bringing in hundreds of thousands of Afghanis into the US in the current situation is an absolute no go. The best “translators”? Sure. Let’s work with the world on the rest…

Starsky wrote:
Are you saying we should ship out 18,000 translators? And their families and extended families?

Yeah sorry can’t do that…

yes we can.  stop creating a false choice.  and that 18K number is already interpreters + their families.

Starsky wrote:
You don’t get an automatic winning lottery ticket all expenses paid to the US for working for the US in a paid capacity.

you seem to think that collaborating with the americans in afghanistan is akin to getting a job flipping burgers or sweeping the floors.  it's not.  being seen helping the americans, riding with them every day, you get marked for death.  if it was only for the money, no one would have taken the job.  and you still don't seem to appreciate that WE NEEDED THEM.  they did us a favor by risking their lives to help us.

Starsky wrote:
Also I think you are using this to mean something other than translator. My dad translated between Jimmy Carter and General Videla. That’s a translator.

this will come as a shock to no one, but you're wrong again: your dad was an interpreter not a translator. "An interpreter is a person specially trained to convert oral messages from one language to another. A translator is a person specially trained to convert written text from one language to another." 
https://refugeehealthta.org/access-to-care/language-access/interpreters-vs-translators/
https://telelanguage.com/blog/difference-interpreter-translator/
https://www.lionbridge.com/blog/translation-localization/5-major-differences-interpretation-translation/

in a past life i worked behind the scenes at the UN.  spent a good amount of time talking to the interpreters who provided the voices inside those earpieces you see diplomats wearing.  to them, being called a translator was an insult.

Starsky wrote:
Are you saying we should ship out 18,000 translators? And their families and extended families?

BRO! Unequivocally YES.

How many people did we take in in the last days of Vietnam?

You’re out of your element here, Donnie.

Yeah I knew he was an interpreter actually


I don’t think I agree with taking that many people. Anyways I think it’s irrelevant at this point. We have left.


The comparisons between Vietnam and Afghanistan are completely fraught and I wish people could stop making them

Starsky wrote:
Just the idea of bringing in hundreds of thousands of Afghanis into the US in the current situation is an absolute no go.

your strawman is falling apart: no one said "hundreds of thousands of Afghanis."

Starsky wrote:
And no we can’t do everything at the same time.

again, strawman: we're not trying to do everything.  we're trying to do two things.  we can do both.


it's not a good sign for your position if you need to use scare tactics to get people on your side.

I am not trying to get people on my side

I am confident that at the end of the day it could be hundreds of thousands of Afghanis and I don’t think we should take all of them.


The fact is part of the failure in Afghanistan stems from the Afghani government which was quite corrupt. I ain’t taking just anybody cause they worked there…purportedly on our side

Sorry.

Once we take care of Baltimore let’s go back to saving people in other countries

We got our own issues here back home.

I think Biden has the complete correct approach to refugees: take a bit more than Trump but not too many more.

I wouldn’t change that until he is re-elected.

Well thanks…this spurred me to do a search and for the first time see footage of my dad the interpreter at White House..just the back of him..guy holding hands behind his back..around 2:33 in video


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view=detail&mid=81780E98B9E2EEBAFB9F81780E98B9E2EEBAFB9F&q=Carter Videla meeting&shtp=GetUrl&shid=a7d69f9f-b5ef-413a-9cc3-910f66dcb236&shtk=Sm9yZ2UgUmFmYWVsIFZpZGVsYSBtZWV0cyB3aXRoIFByZXNpZGVudCBKaW1teSBDYXJ0ZXIgMTk3Nw%3D%3D&shdk=V2FzaGluZ3RvbiAoVVNBKTogVGhlIFByZXNpZGVudCBvZiB0aGUgQXJnZW50aW5lIFJlcHVibGljLCBMaWV1dGVuYW50IEdlbmVyYWwgSm9yZ2UgUmFmYWVsIFZpZGVsYSB2aXNpdHMgdGhlIFdoaXRlIEhvdXNlLiAoU2VyZ2lvIFZpbGxhcm9lbCAvIE1hZ25ldGljIC8gQ29sb3IpRGF0ZTogOC85LzE5NzdEdXJhdGlvbjogNSBtaW51dGVzIDQwIHNlY29uZHNGaWxtIGNvZGU6IEMtMDE3NDhEZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgZmlsbToxLiBSZXBvcnQgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGpvdXJuYWxpc3QgY29tbWVudHM6ICJUaGUgZGlhbG9ndWUgYmV0d2VlbiBQcmVzaWRlbnQgSm9yZ2UgUmFmYWVsIFZpZGVsYSBhbmQgdGhlIC4uLg%3D%3D&shhk=UKlQSsNtyZTWH0mw2ECdEv3Qx1dJjBEon8UTmsYfVXc%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OVP.LgcmLYu46jXz0to2FSsIOgEsCp


In Argentina he made cover of papers


Can’t believe things Carter said of Videla who was leading dirty war or that my dad had to be next to this genocidal pig