Maybe we should just elect Trump president

So the mainstream DNC message is, "we don't really want to abolish ICE but our true plans are too complicated and difficult to explain to you"?

That should play really well in a week or two when the caravan reaches the US border.

The US is currently run by the worst president in history, and the Dems can't seem to get their shit together. It would be comical if it weren't so sad.

I think Schumer and Pelosi are horribly ineffective.  That said, I do think that the move to run on health care is a smart one for the Dems. 

The people who vote on immigration are already going to vote for R's, so why focus your energy there?  It's like EW taking that ancestry test.  Especially since you are just going to piss off the Democrat diehards who actually do want to abolish ICE and start over? 

With Healthcare the Dems can go on offense.  It clearly has the R's scared, or else they wouldn't all be lying about their positions and their votes.  It polls well, and people are starting to understand it.

As for Trump… he might be a horrible president, but he's a good politician and the economy is doing well (sort of).  Plus there are a lot of structrural advantages the R's have. 

Look, I'm terrified about this election but I would MUCH rather it was waged on health care than anything else.

Agree

How hard would it be for senior democrats in Congress to call a press conference and make clear the party stance on caravans, illegals etc while pushing back on the lunacy of being afraid of a group of poor Latinos walking from Honduras for a better life?

Instead they allow Trump to paint them as pro open borders

good stuff people!!
this was one of the most insightful back and forths I've seen anywhere!

unfortunately the people in power are not listening to this and who ever is giving them advice should be fired

hutch wrote:
Agree

How hard would it be for senior democrats in Congress to call a press conference and make clear the party stance on caravans, illegals etc while pushing back on the lunacy of being afraid of a group of poor Latinos walking from Honduras for a better life?

Instead they allow Trump to paint them as pro open borders

What should the stance be on caravans?  It is a group of migrant families (many from country's like Hondorus where the Sec of State Hillary Clinton supported a military coupe) walking to the border together for protection so that they can legally demand asylum in the US.  And how do you diffuse the situation without just sounding like Trump light?

And even if Schumer did this, there are enough Abolish Ice House Dems running that no one would believe it is the "Democratic."

The caravan is going to get near the border and the Republicans are going to say that most of the 3 million Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans already living in the US are here illegally (which is true) and then they are going to point to the caravan of Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorans at the border and say that the Democrats want to abolish ICE and let them all in. The Dems will scramble to come up with a response, but they will fear alienating the crucial Millennial vote, so they will make some vague comments that don't really say whether they favor abolishing ICE or not and the Republicans will pounce on it.

The Dems answer is going to be that we need to have a comprehensive immigration solution.  Which of course means nothing to anyone.

What can the Dems say that you think insulates them from the Republican attack?

There is definitely not anything that is humane or nuanced that will work for the middle.

So that leaves tacking right.  Even if Schumer does that by saying the caravan should be stopped or we should have less immigrants Trump will just double down and say that his wall would have solved this and the Dems obstructed it.

I still think the Dems are best trying to crowd the caravan out with other issues.  Push voter suppression, push health care, push Trump's lying, push Trump being in bed with the Saudi's.  FOX news of course is going to be all over the caravan but there is no winning for the Dems by drawing more coverage to it.

ggw wrote:
The Dems will scramble to come up with a response, but they will fear alienating the crucial Millennial vote, so they will make some vague comments that don't really say whether they favor abolishing ICE or not and the Republicans will pounce on it.

Correct. Because Republicans fall in line with their party and Democratic voters do not. Mainstream Democrats have to constantly give up the middle because the human garbage that is the Bernie Bros won't show up and vote unless the Democratic platform is endless virtue signalling. It would be nice if the progressive wing of the party – which fancies themselves the smartest people in the room – understood they actually need to win elections to do things. Say "we agree, we need tough borders and cannot tolerate illegals" then once you win actually go about enacting your real agenda. You know, like the GOP does every time.

Julian, wrote:

ggw wrote:
The Dems will scramble to come up with a response, but they will fear alienating the crucial Millennial vote, so they will make some vague comments that don't really say whether they favor abolishing ICE or not and the Republicans will pounce on it.

Correct. Because Republicans fall in line with their party and Democratic voters do not. Mainstream Democrats have to constantly give up the middle because the human garbage that is the Bernie Bros won't show up and vote unless the Democratic platform is endless virtue signalling. It would be nice if the progressive wing of the party – which fancies themselves the smartest people in the room – understood they actually need to win elections to do things. Say "we agree, we need tough borders and cannot tolerate illegals" then once you win actually go about enacting your real agenda. You know, like the GOP does every time.

I think you have the way the GOP is working backwards.  The GOP moderate wing has either been snuffed out (Corker and Flake) or decided to go along with the racism and hate of the far right, because for them it is a small price to pay to pass otherwise unpopular tax cuts that distribute billions of dollars of additional wealth up.  The Muslim ban, immigration crackdowns, etc… the GOP has already given abandoned the center. 

Obama did the exact opposite of what you are describing. He ran on a moderately progressive platform (close Guantanamo and public option for instance) and then he moved center once in office. The strategy didn't get the D's any additional voters in the 2010 midterms.

The question for the Dems is whether they better off energizing their base by going left or trying to broaden to get Trump voters by moving to the center.  A corollary is does moving to the center on issues like immigration even attract Trump voters, or are they actually more attracted to a move left on things like health care where polling for Medicare for all is actually high?

Jury is still out.

FWIW,  the actual caravan is still 1,200 miles away.

Republicans are such pussies…surely there is a good ad here somewhere

This could also go in the Onion thread:

The #MAGAbomber's van, annotated

Trump will win in 2020. Sorry folks.

I have always thought this the likeliest scenario and am dismayed at the number of liberal friends I have who dismiss him as an idiot too stupid to have a chance and who will be impeached

drewtang wrote:
Trump will win in 2020. Sorry folks.

You can take your loser attitude and shove it. I'm taking a fighting attitude.

Well you still have to fight no matter what you think will happen but the only time since 1980 someone was not re-elected was the strange case of George HW Bush when Perot had the most successful third party candidacy of the past century handing Clinton the presidency

The incumbent has a lot of advantages and we shouldn’t dismiss him as an idiot or underestimate him

I guess Carter was not re-elected in 1980 but it seems rare

I'm feeling good that the D's will crush the house (unless trump finds a way to turn the crazy up)
Senate is not looking possible at all…hopefully we'll keep it at 48/49


but this infographic should concern the future of the GOP as White becomes a minority in the USA

hence the plans to suppress non-white voters, limit non-white immigration, portraying whites as victims to ensure they get out and vote, etc…

sweetcell wrote:
hence the plans to suppress non-white voters, limit non-white immigration, portraying whites as victims to ensure they get out and vote, etc…

I would be ok with this if all the white immigrants were liberals.