TBD

yup.

Central European countries have the longest parental leave regulations in the world regarding parental leave. In the Czech Republic and Slovakia, it is standard that mothers stay at home for 3 years after a child's birth, which may extend with additional children. Mothers can decide to take 2, 3 or 4 years of maternity leave. It is also possible for the fathers to take the leave instead of the mothers but it is not common. For the whole period mothers are supported by the state . In Slovakia the standard duration of parental leave is 3 years; for a child with a disability it is up to 6 years. The state pays support of 256 euros per month for the child's first 2 years, reducing to 164.22 euros per month thereafter. A similar model is also used in Austria where mothers can choose between 1 and 3 years.

Sweden provides working parents with an entitlement of 13 months paid leave per child at 77.6% of the employee's monthly salary (up to a ceiling of about $3,400 per month (2013)), the cost being shared between employer and the state. In addition, parents also are entitled to an additional 90 days of leave at approximately $25 per day. Out of the total of 480 days paid parental leave, 60 days are reserved exclusively for each parent and are lost if not utilized. It should be noted that the paid days include weekends. Thus, 480 days is equal to about 16 months. Some Swedish political parties on the political left argue for legislation to oblige families to divide the 480 days equally between both parents. Norway has similarly generous leave. In Estonia mothers are entitled to 18 months of paid leave, starting up to 70 days before due date. Fathers are entitled to paid leave starting from the third month after birth (paid leave is however available to only one parent at a time).

In the UK, female employees are entitled to 52 weeks of maternity (or adoption) leave, 39 weeks of which is paid, planned to rise to 52 weeks paid, with the first six weeks paid at 90% of full pay and the remainder at a fixed rate (£128.73/week as of 2011). Employees have to follow notification rules and might also be entitled to Statutory Maternity Pay, depending on their length of service and average earnings by the 15th week before the expected week of childbirth. Most employers offer a more generous policy. Annual leave continues to accrue throughout the maternity leave period. A spouse or partner of the woman (including same-sex relationships) may request a two week paid (at a fixed rate) paternity leave. Both the mother and her partner can additionally request non-paid parental leave, which can be for up to 4 weeks annually, with a current limit of 13 weeks.

atomic wrote:
James wrote:
I think they should do away with day care altogether and pay people parental leave (one parent anyway) for the first two or three years of the child's life.

Who in their right mind really thinks it's a good idea to hand over a three month old baby to  strangers to raise all day?


atomic wrote:
James wrote:
You mean change the laws so that one parent can stay home and take care of the young children? How would you propose they do that?

atomic wrote:
James wrote:
I'm not sure how bragging about one's parenting choices is "trolling". I just wish all future parents were required to take parenting classes before they actually were allowed to become parents.

atomic wrote:
hutch wrote:
to me a troll is someone who posts stuff just to get a rise/reaction or get under people's skin…
their posts are often reactive so if you say the sky is blue they'll come in with "what do you mean , the sky is black…."…to me that's often trolling..

personally i like friendly/ridiculous trolling though whereas what i call personal trolling is detestable…… if i hear one more word about someone's awesome parenting choices and the "guide to why my life is the wiener schnitzel" i'll retch…


Yeah parenting choices.  I guess it is easy to make parenting suggestions when you don't have kids.  Perhaps, I should stop doing that until I have a kid.



What are you going to do prevent people from having sex?  Poor people are going to have a bunch of kids and not take care of them.  That is how things work.  The solution is to change the laws so everyone makes enough money to be able to take care of their kids. 



No I meant raising minimum wage …lowering day care costs, lowering health care costs, making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests.  You still have to work. 

The problem with lowering taxes and stupid things like these is people just pay more for used houses.  Really doesn't help the economy at all.   



I think in Norway businesses are required to give a year paid leave to mothers.  But Norway also has a million dollars of governement surplus per person.  
fascinating.
atomic wrote:
making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests. 


wait…by your logic this would just produce a generation of weaklings. 
chaz wrote:
atomic wrote:
making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests. 


wait…by your logic this would just produce a generation of weaklings. 


Oh I just wanted to seem stronger than James Ford.  I think college should be free for everyone.  It is an investment in our nations future.
James wrote:

However, I would welcome some sort of required parenting classes, as would happily sigh up as soon as they are available.



Don't wish for that.  These sorts of things are aimed at the lowest common denominator. 

When my first wife and I got divorced we had to take a co-parenting class, as ordered by the judge.  Not sure if this was by law or what, but we had to take it.  It was the stupidest waste of time.  Pretty much an entire weekend totally wasted.  A transmission of completely obvious information.

Not to mention, it did nothing to improve the ex's co-parenting skills, or parenting skills for that matter.  She is dead now, so no longer have to deal with that challenge.

Happily, my picker has since gone in for extensive service and is now a finely tuned high performance machine.


Yes, very good points.

Perhaps I should have phrased it as "required classes that people would have the ability to test out of".

Of course even with classes you would have people performing poorly as parents. Even people with common sense and/or proper training still make dumb mistakes. Myself included.



chaz wrote:
James wrote:

However, I would welcome some sort of required parenting classes, as would happily sigh up as soon as they are available.



Don't wish for that.  These sorts of things are aimed at the lowest common denominator. 

When my first wife and I got divorced we had to take a co-parenting class, as ordered by the judge.  Not sure if this was by law or what, but we had to take it.  It was the stupidest waste of time.  Pretty much an entire weekend totally wasted.  A transmission of completely obvious information.

Not to mention, it did nothing to improve the ex's co-parenting skills, or parenting skills for that matter.  She is dead now, so no longer have to deal with that challenge.

Happily, my picker has since gone in for extensive service and is now a finely tuned high performance machine.



Lets get real here… we are not going to get 3 years of paid leave..it just isn't going to happen…we barely get two weeks vacation!


within what is possible the best hope for the most children is increased flexibility in where people can send their kids….

i mean everyone should have a right to a similar basic public education….but a supreme court decision in the 70s ruled that different districts can spend completely different amounts on their kids…so forget about that but if ever there was something that should be changed its this.. ain't gonna happen…the land of unequal opportunity.


because of the court rulling many kids will get screwed so i'm all for vouchers, charter schools, flexibility in where people can send children, home schooling, you name it…. this idea that parents need to send their kids to craptastic schools because they are in their neighborhood is ridiculous…

what people never realize as they pat themselves on the back about their fantastic parenting is that how well kids do is largely predetermined by their genes and their environment (yes, their parents money)…

i was part of a tutor mentor program in DC for a few years…. the kids don't stand a chance… when the kid lost his text book what do you think the parent said? I'm not paying for a textbook. what do you think the teacher did? nothing…six weeks went by.. is it any wonder the kid didn't give a shit about school? i wonder what lamar brennan is up to now.
atomic wrote:
No I meant raising minimum wage …lowering day care costs, lowering health care costs, making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests.  You still have to work. 



So in other words you want to get paid more for flipping burgers at McDonalds, but people who have actually worked to earn an education and better themselves need to get paid less for providing much more valuable services and they pay more taxes so you can get more 'free shit'!  Wow where do I sign up to sit on my ass, take no personal responsibility to better myself, and make everyone else in society pay my way?  The only thing wrong with your plan is that it does not include a free two week all expenses paid vacation to the destination of my choice each year so I can deal with the stress of watching those burgers fry all day!

(In case no one has clued you in yet there is no such thing as free.)
So if flipping burgers and working a white dollar desk job paid the same, you'd choose to flip burgers?


RatBastard wrote:
atomic wrote:
No I meant raising minimum wage …lowering day care costs, lowering health care costs, making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests.  You still have to work. 



So in other words you want to get paid more for flipping burgers at McDonalds, but people who have actually worked to earn an education and better themselves need to get paid less for providing much more valuable services and they pay more taxes so you can get more 'free shit'!  Wow where do I sign up to sit on my ass, take no personal responsibility to better myself, and make everyone else in society pay my way?  The only thing wrong with your plan is that it does not include a free two week all expenses paid vacation to the destination of my choice each year so I can deal with the stress of watching those burgers fry all day!

(In case no one has clued you in yet there is no such thing as free.)
But there are plenty of people who could choose to stay home with their children for three years with proper financial planning, and sacrificing some of life's luxuries for awhile. But they don't.


hutch wrote:
Lets get real here… we are not going to get 3 years of paid leave..it just isn't going to happen…we barely get two weeks vacation!


within what is possible the best hope for the most children is increased flexibility in where people can send their kids….

i mean everyone should have a right to a similar basic public education….but a supreme court decision in the 70s ruled that different districts can spend completely different amounts on their kids…so forget about that but if ever there was something that should be changed its this.. ain't gonna happen…the land of unequal opportunity.


because of the court rulling many kids will get screwed so i'm all for vouchers, charter schools, flexibility in where people can send children, home schooling, you name it…. this idea that parents need to send their kids to craptastic schools because they are in their neighborhood is ridiculous…

what people never realize as they pat themselves on the back about their fantastic parenting is that how well kids do is largely predetermined by their genes and their environment (yes, their parents money)…

i was part of a tutor mentor program in DC for a few years…. the kids don't stand a chance… when the kid lost his text book what do you think the parent said? I'm not paying for a textbook. what do you think the teacher did? nothing…six weeks went by.. is it any wonder the kid didn't give a shit about school? i wonder what lamar brennan is up to now.
atomic wrote:
I also think allowing to get tax credits or even tax credits for paying for private education would help.  And letting people put their kids into any public school in the state.  Why should kids be forced to go to an awful school just because their parents aren't living in a rich neighborhood.


This is an absolutely absurd idea.  No one FORCES anyone to send their child to public school.  You have the option to use the schools that the state provides at no direct cost to you OR you can foot the bill to go elsewhere.  By your moronic logic all of the following should be enacted…


1) If I do not have children I should get a cash refund of all taxes paid to fund education since I am not using that service.

2) if I have a fire alarm system in my house I should get a voucher for the part of my taxes that go to pay for a fire department.  I should not be forced to use the state provided fire department.

3) If I have guns in my house and use them to defend myself I should get a voucher for the part of my taxes that go to pay for the police.  I should not be forced to use the protection that the state provides.

4) If I do not own a motor vehicle I should get a voucher for all taxes paid to fund the DMV.  I do not use their services therefore I should not have to pay.

5) If I do not drive I should get a voucher for all taxes paid to build and maintain roadways.  I should not have to pay for something I do not use.

6) If I am gainfully employed I should get a voucher for all taxes paid to fund food stamps, welfare, or any other free shot for lazy people.  Since I am being a responsible productive member of society and I do not use these services I should get a voucher for them.

It is all the same thing.  No difference what-so-ever.  What you (and many people who want free shit) forget is that there is no such thing as free and further what taxes we do pay are not intended to result in a one for one benefit for any given member of society.  Just because you CHOOSE not to use a specific benefit that taxes fund does not mean that you get your money back.
James wrote:
But there are plenty of people who could choose to stay home with their children for three years with proper financial planning, and sacrificing some of life's luxuries for awhile. But they don't.




well not everyone is as smart/good a person as you james ford

you're just talking out of your ass really dude… you don't know what people on this board do…for all you know somebody is a stay at home dad or someone works and their wife takes care of the kids at home…

anyways, i love you but you're boring me.
Never said that wasn't the case. There are plenty of people who do make good decisions, and plenty more for whom it's just not a possibility.

Still, I think one or even two years of paid parental leave is certainly within reason. Maybe not at 100% of the salary…but the US could do much better in this area.

hutch wrote:
James wrote:
But there are plenty of people who could choose to stay home with their children for three years with proper financial planning, and sacrificing some of life's luxuries for awhile. But they don't.




well not everyone is as smart/good a person as you james ford

you're just talking out of your ass really dude… you don't know what people on this board do…for all you know somebody is a stay at home dad or someone works and their wife takes care of the kids at home…

anyways, i love you but you're boring me.
RatBastard wrote:
atomic wrote:
I also think allowing to get tax credits or even tax credits for paying for private education would help.  And letting people put their kids into any public school in the state.  Why should kids be forced to go to an awful school just because their parents aren't living in a rich neighborhood.


I am insane and I am spouting off nonsense.  No need to read it.


This is how I read what you posted.
RatBastard wrote:
atomic wrote:
No I meant raising minimum wage …lowering day care costs, lowering health care costs, making college free for everyone that scores above a certain level on standardized tests.  You still have to work. 



So in other words you want to get paid more for flipping burgers at McDonalds, but people who have actually worked to earn an education and better themselves need to get paid less for providing much more valuable services and they pay more taxes so you can get more 'free shit'!  Wow where do I sign up to sit on my ass, take no personal responsibility to better myself, and make everyone else in society pay my way?  The only thing wrong with your plan is that it does not include a free two week all expenses paid vacation to the destination of my choice each year so I can deal with the stress of watching those burgers fry all day!

(In case no one has clued you in yet there is no such thing as free.)


If someone gets paid 15 dollars an hour to work at McDonalds that doesn't come close to the amount of money I earn and if it leads to less crime then I benefit from it.  Also they will need less government support as they are getting higher wages.  I never eat at McDonalds so I get no benefit from them paying their employees so low that they qualify for welfare, food stamps, and medicaid.  I also don't shop at Walmart, eat at Burger King or frequent establishments that pay their workers minimum wage. 
James wrote:
Never said that wasn't the case. There are plenty of people who do make good decisions, and plenty more for whom it's just not a possibility.

Still, I think one or even two years of paid parental leave is certainly within reason. Maybe not at 100% of the salary…but the US could do much better in this area.



no doubt… but there is no interest.. the interest lies in having people work Thanksgiving now..or haven't you heard? I see it as a non-starter…



hutch wrote:
James wrote:
Never said that wasn't the case. There are plenty of people who do make good decisions, and plenty more for whom it's just not a possibility.

Still, I think one or even two years of paid parental leave is certainly within reason. Maybe not at 100% of the salary…but the US could do much better in this area.



no doubt… but there is no interest.. the interest lies in having people work Thanksgiving now..or haven't you heard? I see it as a non-starter…



People in this country have been brainwashed pretty well.  I always think you can learn from others.  And there are other countries who's system works better than ours but it won't ever change here as people have been convinced that it is best the way it is. 

I would  never shop on Thanksgiving.
You definitely talk some good sense when you're not deliberately trolling.
;)

atomic wrote:
hutch wrote:
James wrote:
Never said that wasn't the case. There are plenty of people who do make good decisions, and plenty more for whom it's just not a possibility.

Still, I think one or even two years of paid parental leave is certainly within reason. Maybe not at 100% of the salary…but the US could do much better in this area.



no doubt… but there is no interest.. the interest lies in having people work Thanksgiving now..or haven't you heard? I see it as a non-starter…



People in this country have been brainwashed pretty well.  I always think you can learn from others.  And there are other countries who's system works better than ours but it won't ever change here as people have been convinced that it is best the way it is. 

I would  never shop on Thanksgiving.
Christine McVie has re-joined Fleetwood Mac.