The 2020 thread....

IMO, their rules were clear…if Booker or Tulsi didn't make the stage, get a better platform so people support you.  I think it was a bullshit claim that the terms were unfair…they were unfair if your policies sucked.

But the whole uproar was about "lack of diversity" when those two didn't make it (hell, Yang pointed it out when he was the last POC standing) and the DNC didn't budge…then immediately does because Bloomberg won't make the cut.  Pathetic scumbags

Julian, wrote:

nkotb wrote:
The DNC refusing to change the rules to get more diversity on the debate stage,

We literally had five debates that had to be multi day so every jackboot yokel with 3 followers could pitch. Stop this shit. Bernie Bros are the fucking worst.

The current DNC rules were written by Bernie!!

Do some research NKOTB cause you continue to embarrass yourself

Typical divisiveness from the anti-Bernie camp.  When will you apologize for your behavior???

Look, the rules were the rules no matter who wrote them…I don't care. Personally i think they should've been stricter so I didn't have to listen to some of these bores.  But for the DNC to decide to throw portions out to include Bloomberg…well, I can't fault anyone that claims they're corrupt!

hutch wrote:
The current DNC rules were written by Bernie!!

Do some research NKOTB cause you continue to embarrass yourself

Divisive?

Like 1 in 10 Bernie primary 2016 voters voting Trump?

Dude you are full of shit

1) something like 24% of HRC voters went for McCain over Obama, and he still won. 

2) I voted for HRC so my conscious is clear.

Why do you continue to split the party, Hutch????

hutch wrote:
Like 1 in 10 Bernie primary 2016 voters voting Trump?

that's some bullshit that these were getable voters tho
you make it like Bernie told them to vote for trump
Some of bernie voters were the 'shake shit up' kind of voter who were not ever voting for Hil
Hil had to appeal to them or increase the base and she didn't

I do think that a lot of people sat out in key states because they thought Hil was going to crush…and her not focusing on the key battleground states was of her own making
I don't know who the key players were in her campaign, but they should all not be working as they suck at their job


Also, Bloomberg is polling better than 20 of the other people who were running and got on the stage
I do think that should stand for something.
I'm not daft an know he kind of bought that name recognition
It is odd situation that he doesn't have any donations and is self funded so he couldn't qualify
don't even thought this was an option

some good news out of VA
Just passed  no excuse absentee voting!!!

Believe it or not, i agree with you.  I have no love for Bloomberg (billionaire, stop & frisk, etc etc.), but he's polling nationally higher than Buttigieg, Yang or Klobuchar.

That said, this is a DIRECT QUOTE from Tom Perez when asked about relaxing debate rules to increase diversity on the debate stage:

"But we made the rules, they were very transparent, they're very inclusive, and we can't change the rules midstream because there's a candidate that I wish were on but didn't make the debate stage."

And he's right!  They're clear and transparent from day 1.  Bloomberg knows this and still opted to self-fund.  So why the sudden change?  I'll tell you why:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sanders-leads-in-iowa-polls-ahead-of-caucuses-followed-by-biden-buttigieg-then-warren-2020-01-30

asymptomatic wrote:
Also, Bloomberg is polling better than 20 of the other people who were running and got on the stage
I do think that should stand for something.
I'm not daft an know he kind of bought that name recognition
It is odd situation that he doesn't have any donations and is self funded so he couldn't qualify
don't even thought this was an option

At this point, it might actually be an advantage to not be on the stage.  Well, as long Dems continue to eat their own, having some distance from that can be spun into a positive.

Well, at least until they all turn on you and you can't defend yourself.

nkotb wrote:
1) something like 24% of HRC voters went for McCain over Obama, and he still won. 

2) I voted for HRC so my conscious is clear.

Why do you continue to split the party, Hutch????

24% of people who voted for Hillary voted McCain?

Where is the evidence? I call bullshit

But even if that’s so they didn’t cost Obama the presidency like Bernie voters cost HRC and gave us Trump. Own it

And the sad thing is when Bernie loses I doubt his supporters will support the nominee…they have become far more cult like since the last go around

As for your claim you voted for Hillary…I doubt it…and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post….the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

To be clear: I await your evidence that millions of Hillary voters in the 2008 primaries voted for McCain

hutch wrote:
As for your claim you voted for Hillary…I doubt it…and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post….the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

hutch, dude… when you sober up in the morning, please re-read the above then ask yourself if that's the kind of "debate" that moves anything in a positive direction. 

Sorry to say I am perfectly sober

We have been having the same debate since HRC lost

These primaries will decide it once and for all

But I have had it with the Bernie people

I can’t believe how people put down Bloomberg for being rich…the guy uses his money for good things

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bloomberg+donation+to+hopkins&view=detail&mid=675BD2B2F192438E045E675BD2B2F192438E045E&FORM=VIRE

He has also been very involved with gun issues

I like him


Someone recently told me Bloomberg is bombarding the airwaves on Latino TV stations with campaign ads…everyone else ignores them…some of the other candidates have a lot of other people’s money they could spend doing the same…they don’t while Bloomberg spends his own

Unity from Bernie folk

https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisjollyhale/status/1223442238509850624

hutch wrote:
And the sad thing is when Bernie loses I doubt his supporters will support the nominee…they have become far more cult like since the last go around

So let's be clear, Bernie does not have a small # of supporters at this point
and to paint that group as one monolith single hive mind is not really the reality
He definitely has the ultra left wing and young vote
there are surely a percentage of them that are Bern or bust, but I'd say that is less than 10% of that
He also is likely to win the first 3 primaries

So every time you insult the bernie supporters, you are pissing off the 90% who would #votebluenomatterwho
those other 10% are not gettable votes, if bernie doesn't win, they won't vote or write him in
give up on them
but stop insulting the other 90%

With all of that said, I blame the DNC for not changing things with this stupid primary
the presidential election is ONLY about one thing…the Electoral college
The DNC should have reorganized super Tuesday to be just the battle ground states
We need a candidate who can win in those states…and that's it

Fuck Iowa …what a waste of time and money
and don't get me started on the stupidity of Caucuses.  Sound great on paper, but a surefire way to DECREASE voter turn out…and the ones that do tend to be a bit extreme

Why does the DNC think this set up is the holy tenant of how things get done
You would have thought with the way things were looking early on in 2019…they could have just said…OK, fuck how we did this before, we need to win the EC, we need a candidate who can win in Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan,  Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina
So we're going to push these states up in the Primary to go FIRST and the campaigns should ONLY focus on these states


So our current super tue at least has MI, NC AZ and FL 
That they put  GA, PA and WI after super tues…after what we already know…

ultimately what's done is done…but I am pretty confident that if Trump wins, it is because we didn't change the primary to focus on the who can win the battle ground states

I'm tired of talking about stupid HRC (I know, I know I'm to blame here as well!) and there's a primary to win so I'll turn back my focus there.  Plus, Rashida Tlaib put a better capper on this last night than I ever could :)

hutch wrote:
24% of people who voted for Hillary voted McCain?

Where is the evidence? I call bullshit

LOL I literally posted this the last time you brought up Bernie supporters that went for Trump.  Try googling "Hillary Clinton PUMA" t0 remind yourself how 2008 went down:

nkotb wrote:
As someone that did vote for HRC over Trump (I'm not fully insane, gang) I do think that number stinks.  But you have to ask how that compares to past elections.  This was pretty eye opening though i think that for anyone that blames Bernie for Trumps victory it wont move the needle:

"Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

hutch wrote:
I had not seen this before

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds?fbclid=IwAR3M9hbi2a6aC7atJmxp9nAKUE8AqSeAwSrJs320m6tVZLRFNVsSaiuShDQ

hutch wrote:
But even if that’s so they didn’t cost Obama the presidency like Bernie voters cost HRC and gave us Trump. Own it

This is because Obama, for his faults, is a winner. HRC is a loser.

hutch wrote:
As for your claim you voted for Hillary…I doubt it…and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post

See above. 

hutch wrote:
the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

Maybe it's the fact that they changed those rules to include Bloomberg that folks are in an uproar. These are the same rules that couldn't be amended previous because doing so would "be putting our thumb on the scale" according to Tom Perez.  Why was changing the rules to include a climate only debate putting your thumb on the scale, but throwing out the established, agreed upon threshold for donations to include Bloomberg not?

I am bored but it’s remarkable you cite a study that literally blames Bernie supporters for Trump winning. I am not sure how much stock to put on it as a whole…..They do not blame Hillary supporters for Obama losing. And it was very different to vote for McCain in 2008 knowing he had zero chance than voting Trump in 2016 - knowing what he represented- and that it was close…


Done with this….let’s see Iowa…everyone seems to be predicting a Bernie landslide (no am not trying to create expectations just saying what I see and hear)

How will the failed impeachment play in Iowa is a new X factor

I would be fine with Bernie beating Trump. Would be a great thing…and I would definitely support Bernie although voting for someone is hardly enough. I made calls for Kerry, donated to Obama (who I strongly supported in primaries over HRC and canvassed for), canvassed and donated to HRC….this is in the general

When people say they would vote for someone and that’s it I just don’t think it’s enough…..there is a whole campaign

hutch wrote:

nkotb wrote:
1) something like 24% of HRC voters went for McCain over Obama, and he still won. 

2) I voted for HRC so my conscious is clear.

Why do you continue to split the party, Hutch????

24% of people who voted for Hillary voted McCain?

Where is the evidence? I call bullshit

But even if that’s so they didn’t cost Obama the presidency like Bernie voters cost HRC and gave us Trump. Own it

And the sad thing is when Bernie loses I doubt his supporters will support the nominee…they have become far more cult like since the last go around

As for your claim you voted for Hillary…I doubt it…and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post….the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

15% according to CNN

Exit polling also showed that Democrats who supported Sen. Hillary Clinton during the primaries overwhelming voted for Obama in the general election, 84 percent to 15 percent for McCain.

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/exit.polls/

15% seems probable or possible…


I just think saying 24% is crazy…I don’t expect NKOTB to accept his number was bull or to accept Hillary did not cost Obama the presidency while Bernie did cost Hillary the presidency


I think voting doesn’t take place in a vacuum

We knew Trump was a threat…We knew Obama would beat McCain

I noticed NKOTB called Hillary a loser……the real loser was the American people including NKOTB and I