Just Announced Commentary - 2011 Edition

Relaxer wrote:
Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

chalk it up to the fact i only drink in Edinburgh and Newcastle, and haven't been overseas in years… aka sobriety combined with the voices inside my head

Sure there are artists who keep touring in order to pay their bills (your Pixies example is spot on) but I say there are still just as many artists that have been around decades and still have a creative itch to record. Mission of Burma and Dinosaur Jr. immediately come to mind. The new House of Love single also shows a ton of promise.

hutch wrote:
oh I don't know that i agree with this.. the reason established musicians put out less albums is because the money these days is entirely from touring… there's little money to be made from a new album…

that is why for example the pixies don't out anything out….nothing to be gained

30 years ago it was the opposite.. the money was from the album..the tour was to promote the album.. now its the other way around and established musicians don't really need to promote a tour….

now new musicians need to promote tours/get on the map..that is why they put out more albums

a disincentive for established musicians to put out new albums is of course people like you who are permanently comparing a band's new music to the old and invariably saying it doesn't measure up so they are has beens… easier not to put anything out at all and not have to deal with the inevitable backlash… the list of musicians that put out albums for say 15 years and people think the new stuff is as good as the classic stuff is very small


but Atomicfront I think there are many reasons why the "new stuff" is often not as good as the "old stuff" and a big part is context….. you can only fall in love with a band one time… that first time you get into them when they're "NEW"… you can't repeat that…. no matter how good the new stuff is…. and the critics will savage you after a while either for not evolving enough or for sounding too little like the old stuff.. can't win

moreover, lets face it..most songs are about L O V E and once you hit a certain age you sound pretty stupid singing about L O V E… i mean robert smith singing about Mary at 50+ is sorta hard to get into no? just doesn't work partly also because we get older and the stuff about L O V E starts to sound kind of cliche… just like the WOE IS ME stuff may work for a teenager / 20 something but by the time you hit your late 30s you're in the real world and thats been left behind.. meanwhile the newer generations want their own heroes/gods/musicians….they don't want to adopt the ones of the prior generation.. in fact they , in some ways, define themselves by looking down on the previous established totem poles…

I guess what I'm saying is there are a whole host of reasons why invariably its very hard to remain relevant beyond the natural curve.. a few can do it… a great poet like Leonard Cohen.. a Bob Dylan who continually reinvents himself and in his last incarnation directly cribs the lyrics and music from past masters… but he's Bob Dylan so nobody going to call him on it too bad…besides its the blues…all about the cribbing…

and if you can't remain "relevant" beyond the natural curve- for a whole host of factors largely outside your control- you're going to be called a "has been"…just the way the cookie crumbles.. but if you go see a Robert Smith live and he's performing as well as ever before and playing a three hour show …35 songs or whatever…. is he really a has been? playing for a happy sold out crowd..thats a has been?

kosmo wrote:

Relaxer wrote:
Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

chalk it up to the fact i only drink in Edinburgh and Newcastle, and haven't been overseas in years… aka sobriety combined with the voices inside my head

Niiice

kosmo wrote:
Is to early to start making requests for FreeFest?  Kraftwerk would be many kinds of awesome at MPP…

+1

I'd really like to see them do the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 thing at Hirshhorn or some other local arty venue. But since they've only done that once in the USA and it was only a bus ride away, I doubt another USA residency would be anywhere near here.

hutch wrote:
I also think part of the reason an artist tends to have a curve of popularity is that after say 10 years their audience kind of moves on…its easy to identify with Moz in your teens and 20s but by the time you're having kids in your late 30s/40s who needs it?

I think that is the case with a lot of musicians..their fans kind of move on..so the sales are not always a reflection of the quality of their newer material

I think his more recent releases deal with getting older in the way you related to his lyrics when you were in your teens and 20s.

kosmo wrote:

Relaxer wrote:

kosmo wrote:
Which begs the question of at which populatity point does a band's music turn from bad to good.  A one point for instance Coldplay was just another band giging around the UK and had a single on a small indie label.  When did their output magically become good?  1000, 5000, 10K fans?  Enquiring minds want to know…

I think some of the 'popular' backlash arises when a band deliberately smooths out its sound in a clear attempt to sell more units. I still think Coldplay's first album is a great guitar album but subsequent albums centered all around Chris Martin's voice and piano, and I lost interest.

Similar with Metallica. Even when they were selling millions of copies of Master of Puppets and Justice for All, they still kept their core constituency, but when they slowed the songs down and made them much more user-friendly on the Black album, that's when people cried foul.

There's always the snob factor of not liking something after everyone else discovers them, but a lot of times it's the band's own fault.

You are over thinking my query… It's a known fact that until a band achieves a certain level of  success/popularity they suck.  So given most bands/artist (excluding supergroups, side projects, solo careers from established bands, American Idol contestants, etc) start out with essentially the same fan base (comprised of friends, girlfriends, parents, drunks at the local open mic night, people using laptops in a coffeehouse, if they are lucky a few bloggers) , even a band that gets wildly popular will at have suritome point sucked.  This is even if the band hasn't changed it's sound, talent or vision from day one.  I just wonder that magical point is when a band stops sucking?

There is of course the Beach House caveat. 

The lingered in obscurity too long clause (i.e. Elliott Smith)

The artist didn't get success until featured in a Volkswagon AD clause. (i.e Nick Drake)

I have no idea what you are spouting on about.  My only guess is you have whatever Michelle Shock has.

hutch wrote:
oh I don't know that i agree with this.. the reason established musicians put out less albums is because the money these days is entirely from touring… there's little money to be made from a new album…

that is why for example the pixies don't out anything out….nothing to be gained

30 years ago it was the opposite.. the money was from the album..the tour was to promote the album.. now its the other way around and established musicians don't really need to promote a tour….

now new musicians need to promote tours/get on the map..that is why they put out more albums

a disincentive for established musicians to put out new albums is of course people like you who are permanently comparing a band's new music to the old and invariably saying it doesn't measure up so they are has beens… easier not to put anything out at all and not have to deal with the inevitable backlash… the list of musicians that put out albums for say 15 years and people think the new stuff is as good as the classic stuff is very small


but Atomicfront I think there are many reasons why the "new stuff" is often not as good as the "old stuff" and a big part is context….. you can only fall in love with a band one time… that first time you get into them when they're "NEW"… you can't repeat that…. no matter how good the new stuff is…. and the critics will savage you after a while either for not evolving enough or for sounding too little like the old stuff.. can't win

moreover, lets face it..most songs are about L O V E and once you hit a certain age you sound pretty stupid singing about L O V E… i mean robert smith singing about Mary at 50+ is sorta hard to get into no? just doesn't work partly also because we get older and the stuff about L O V E starts to sound kind of cliche… just like the WOE IS ME stuff may work for a teenager / 20 something but by the time you hit your late 30s you're in the real world and thats been left behind.. meanwhile the newer generations want their own heroes/gods/musicians….they don't want to adopt the ones of the prior generation.. in fact they , in some ways, define themselves by looking down on the previous established totem poles…

I guess what I'm saying is there are a whole host of reasons why invariably its very hard to remain relevant beyond the natural curve.. a few can do it… a great poet like Leonard Cohen.. a Bob Dylan who continually reinvents himself and in his last incarnation directly cribs the lyrics and music from past masters… but he's Bob Dylan so nobody going to call him on it too bad…besides its the blues…all about the cribbing…

and if you can't remain "relevant" beyond the natural curve- for a whole host of factors largely outside your control- you're going to be called a "has been"…just the way the cookie crumbles.. but if you go see a Robert Smith live and he's performing as well as ever before and playing a three hour show …35 songs or whatever…. is he really a has been? playing for a happy sold out crowd..thats a has been?

I don't just say the love thing is important for lyrical content.  Paul Mcartney's lyrics didn't even make any sense half the time "And Jet, I thought the Major Was a Lady Suffragette".  Wtf does that even mean.  Music is what is important.

And the Cure last album was their best album in the last 20 years. So it is hard to use them as a case of has-beens.  And the Cure were never a great live band even when they were playing the ontario theater or warner theater. They do play a lot of songs and encores it appears.

michelle shocked is not stupid.  she knows what she is doing.  im betting in a few months she will come out crying and begging for forgiveness from the evil hands of her religious tormentors.  she will claim she was mentally hijacked by the enemy but she has fought her way back from their evil clutches.  and the world will love her again and talk about her again and listen to her music again and she'll be famous again.  as i said . . . she knows exactly what she is doing.  and all of this will be done over twitter.

K8teebug wrote:

hutch wrote:
I also think part of the reason an artist tends to have a curve of popularity is that after say 10 years their audience kind of moves on…its easy to identify with Moz in your teens and 20s but by the time you're having kids in your late 30s/40s who needs it?

I think that is the case with a lot of musicians..their fans kind of move on..so the sales are not always a reflection of the quality of their newer material

I think his more recent releases deal with getting older in the way you related to his lyrics when you were in your teens and 20s.

geez just what i want to hear songs about the effects of getting older.   But actually looking at the lyrics of his most reacent album that doesn't seem to be what they are about:

"Oh, something is squeezing my skull
Something I can't fight
No true friends in modern life

Diazapam… that's Valium
Tarmazpam, Lithium

HRT, ECT… how long must I stay on this stuff?

Please don't gimme anymore… "

"
I'm throwing my arms around Paris because
Nobody wants my love
Nobody wants my love
Nobody needs my love
Nobody wants my love

Yes you made yourself plain
Yes you made yourself very plain "


One of the reason's morrissey sucks is the music which he doesn't even write.  He had johnny marr and then he had stephen street for his first album.  those guys could write music.  He needs to get new writers if he wants to put out good music.

as for lyrics…really only the first two smith songs had great lyrics.  after that they got kind of stupid. especially the last smiths album.

Lol, is this whole thing a joke

showlistdc wrote:
hey, in case there was some confusion about whether Ceremony is or isn't playing with Nightmare Air at Beats this Sunday, the answer is: they are.
http://www.facebook.com/events/348009191970513

I will definitely be in attendance. 

On the topic of Morrissey, a pretty cool Smiths recording just surfaced:

Recorded back in 1983 in a jeans warehouse belonging to the Manchester band?s manager Joe Moss, this forty minute recording seems legit ? after all, original Smiths drummer Mike Joyce tweeted it. According to Joyce it was recorded with a cassette recorder on the floor in front of the band, explaining the peculiar mix which finds Morrissey?s vocals lying almost entirely on the left channel.

It was made only a little while before the four piece released their debut The Smiths in 1984, and typically the session includes plenty of tracks from that classic album. ?You?ve Got Everything Now?, ?Reel Around The Fountain?, ?What Difference Does it Make? and ?Hand in Glove? are are just some of the tracks we get to hear, and while the arrangements are mostly similar to the final recorded versions it?s a pleasure to hear the band in this dangerously under-produced warts-n-all state. Tellingly, Morrissey?s voice is just as striking without any enhancement at all.

Allegedly the tape was at some point going to be released in at least a semi-official capacity. The YouTube user who posted it stated:

?I was lent the master cassette by a source close to the band who made the recording, let?s call him Pablo Cuckoo in 1997 with a view of trying to put it out as a semi-official release.?As it was recorded before the band had signed to Rough Trade, technically he had the rights to the recording. But a combination of poor sound quality & threats from Warner Bros meant that the idea was shelved.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GcxifAhnFKA

Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.  I love that album.

So Peter Frampton is doing "Frampton comes alive" at Pier Six.  He is going to play 3 hours total.  Plus he has two opening acts including BB king and this is on a thursday night.  I wonder how late that show will end. 

atomicfront wrote:
Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.   I love that album.

so morrissey is a has-been who is living in the past, yet the smiths should reform and perform a tour exclusively behing a 30-year-old album?

just pointing this out in case anyone ever wanted to take atomicfront seriously, about anything.

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.   I love that album.

so morrissey is a has-been who is living in the past, yet the smiths should reform and perform a tour exclusively behing a 30-year-old album?

just pointing this out in case anyone ever wanted to take atomicfront seriously, about anything.

Umm only has-beens tour one old album anyway.  Isn't that a sure sign you are a has-been?  No one wants to hear your new music anymore so you assure them you will be playing all old stuff by doing an album tour.   It is not like Aracde Fire is going to do a "Funeral" tour this summer.

atomicfront wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.   I love that album.

so morrissey is a has-been who is living in the past, yet the smiths should reform and perform a tour exclusively behing a 30-year-old album?

just pointing this out in case anyone ever wanted to take atomicfront seriously, about anything.

Umm only has-beens tour one old album anyway.  Isn't that a sure sign you are a has-been?  No one wants to hear your new music anymore so you assure them you will be playing all old stuff by doing an album tour.   It is not like Aracde Fire is going to do a "Funeral" tour this summer.

You're a has-been.

DeathFromAbove1979 wrote:

atomicfront wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.   I love that album.

so morrissey is a has-been who is living in the past, yet the smiths should reform and perform a tour exclusively behing a 30-year-old album?

just pointing this out in case anyone ever wanted to take atomicfront seriously, about anything.

Umm only has-beens tour one old album anyway.  Isn't that a sure sign you are a has-been?  No one wants to hear your new music anymore so you assure them you will be playing all old stuff by doing an album tour.   It is not like Aracde Fire is going to do a "Funeral" tour this summer.

You're a has-been.

you're a never-was

atomicfront wrote:

DeathFromAbove1979 wrote:

atomicfront wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Smitsh should reform and do their first album as a tour.   I love that album.

so morrissey is a has-been who is living in the past, yet the smiths should reform and perform a tour exclusively behing a 30-year-old album?

just pointing this out in case anyone ever wanted to take atomicfront seriously, about anything.

Umm only has-beens tour one old album anyway.  Isn't that a sure sign you are a has-been?  No one wants to hear your new music anymore so you assure them you will be playing all old stuff by doing an album tour.   It is not like Aracde Fire is going to do a "Funeral" tour this summer.

You're a has-been.

you're a never-was

You're a has-been.

atomicfront wrote:
So Peter Frampton is doing "Frampton comes alive" at Pier Six.  He is going to play 3 hours total.  Plus he has two opening acts including BB king and this is on a thursday night.  I wonder how late that show will end.   

Gonna guess that Pier 6 has an 11 PM noise curfew….just a hunch.