The Beer Thread

And I would argue that super hoppy beers are one of the biggest reasons people who come over to the craft side do so. They want beer that's 180 degrees different than macro swill. Is that the only reason people come over to the craft side? No. Craft is kicking macro's asses in every genre of beer.


The idea that super hoppy beer is preventing people from seeing the light of craft beer is absurd. Simply because most craft beer isn't super hoppy.

What's preventing most people from seeing the light of craft is most people don't drink what tastes good. They drink what corporate America tells them to drink.

And apparently you don't read my posts. I don't just drink super hoppy beers. In fact, I don't think anybody in this thread has made that claim.

atomicfront wrote:

James wrote:
It's interesting that Kock from BBC and Oliver from BB would have two opposite arguments to bash DIPA's.

Kock seems to be arguing that DIPA's are for simpletons, you need to advance beyond DIPA's before you can achieve true palate sophistication.

Whereas Oliver seems to be saying that DIPA's are too out there (sophisticated?) for the typical beer simpleton to latch onto, and that's what's preventing the growth of the craft industry.

Oliver isn't saying that at all.  That is coming from you.  He is saying extreme beers turn most people off to craft beer as it isn't very palatable. 

But who cares what people think about the beer you like.  Drink what you like.  If Oliver and Kock argue against what difference does it make to you?  If you want to drink Corona every day and you love it..good for you.  I just hate people following trends and liking what others tell them to like.  If you truely like incredibly hoppie beer more power to you.  I mean there are people who love incredibly salty food.  They think it is the best.   

I am getting tired of the argument.  But to consider one type of beer superior to another is silly.   Any type of beer can incredible.  If you are only drinking super hoppie IPA's I think you are really missing out to all the great beers out there but in the end its your choice.  Lets move on from this. 

atomicfront wrote:
I went to a place in San Antonio recently that had like 200 beers on tap.   And some friends show up and one orders a bottle of Tecate.  He said he wanted to get something he knew would taste good.

well that's sad.  there are all sorts of pale ales and lagers that could have appealed to your friend.  then again some people are stuck in their ways and are unable to enjoy anything new.  

atomicfront wrote:
But I also like beers with some hopiness.  I enjoy beers with 60 IBUS.  It is just when beers get over 70 IBUS that I start not liking them.  I enjoy Dogfish Heads 60 minute IPA and Indian Brown Ale.  Hops are good up until the point when they become overpowering.  

right, and that "point when they become overpowering" varies with how big the beer is.  60 IBUs in a light lager will be overkill, while 60 IBUs in barley wine or a DIPA will be very very low - because the light pilsner will be low gravity (low alcohol), while the barley wine and the DIPA are high alcohol/high intensity/etc.  you need hops to balance out the alcohol, and you need alcohol to go with that much hops.

from a brewing standpoint, one way of looking at that ratio is BU:GU, or bitterness units to gravity units, or IBUs to OG.  each beer style has a range for that ratio.  60 IBUs in a 1.040 light lager is 60:40 = 1.5, which is ridiculously high.  60 IBUs in a 1.080 IPA = 0.75 which is at the low end for the style.  another way of looking at it:



from http://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.com/2011/04/bugu-ratios.html

atomicfront wrote:
Oliver isn't saying that at all.  […] He is saying extreme beers turn most people off to craft beer as it isn't very palatable. 

do you happen to have a link to where he said that?  because industry trends prove him wrong.  IPAs and DIPAs/IIPAs have been the fastest growing type of beers in the last few years and Oliver, an industry guy, knows this.  so that argument doesn't hold - it's not driving people away, it's reeling them in.

i suspect he said something similar to what you quote him as saying, but not exactly what you said…

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Oliver isn't saying that at all.  […] He is saying extreme beers turn most people off to craft beer as it isn't very palatable. 

do you happen to have a link to where he said that?  because industry trends prove him wrong.  IPAs and DIPAs/IIPAs have been the fastest growing type of beers in the last few years and Oliver, an industry guy, knows this.  so that argument doesn't hold - it's not driving people away, it's reeling them in.

i suspect he said something similar to what you quote him as saying, but not exactly what you said…

This is a 10 page article.  It is near the end.. Maybe around page 7 or 8. But read the whole thing as it is interesting. 

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=1

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
I went to a place in San Antonio recently that had like 200 beers on tap.   And some friends show up and one orders a bottle of Tecate.  He said he wanted to get something he knew would taste good.

well that's sad.  there are all sorts of pale ales and lagers that could have appealed to your friend.  then again some people are stuck in their ways and are unable to enjoy anything new.  

atomicfront wrote:
But I also like beers with some hopiness.  I enjoy beers with 60 IBUS.  It is just when beers get over 70 IBUS that I start not liking them.  I enjoy Dogfish Heads 60 minute IPA and Indian Brown Ale.  Hops are good up until the point when they become overpowering.  

right, and that "point when they become overpowering" varies with how big the beer is.  60 IBUs in a light lager will be overkill, while 60 IBUs in barley wine or a DIPA will be very very low - because the light pilsner will be low gravity (low alcohol), while the barley wine and the DIPA are high alcohol/high intensity/etc.  you need hops to balance out the alcohol, and you need alcohol to go with that much hops.

from a brewing standpoint, one way of looking at that ratio is BU:GU, or bitterness units to gravity units, or IBUs to OG.  each beer style has a range for that ratio.  60 IBUs in a 1.040 light lager is 60:40 = 1.5, which is ridiculously high.  60 IBUs in a 1.080 IPA = 0.75 which is at the low end for the style.  another way of looking at it:



from http://finnhillbrewing.blogspot.com/2011/04/bugu-ratios.html

Too much to figure out, when I get past brewing from recipes. 

James wrote:
Oh, it's always fun and righteous to toss out the "r" word on a message boards, isn't it? Makes you feel so moral and superior, right?

In my neighborhood, I mostly see Latin Americans getting paid to mow the lawns of lazy shit suburbanites. And when I go to Total Wine in Springfield, which is located in a highly concentrated area of low and lower middle class Latino population, I see that population buying Corona and Tecate by the truckload.

I'm just calling it like I see it, fatty.

fatskippy wrote:

James wrote:
The only beer drank by people who mow lawns are Corona and Tecate.

beer thread just got racist, classy

I'm just calling it like I see it, Sheriff Arpaio. And LOL @ mowing your own lawn.

atomicfront wrote:
Too much to figure out, when I get past brewing from recipes. 

cool, the take-home message is that the bigger the beer, the more IBUs it can handle without tasting more bitter.  saying "i like X number of IBUs" doesn't really stand on its own… you need to say that you like that number of IBUs in a Y% abv beer (as a proxy for original gravity).

James wrote:
Oh, it's always fun and righteous to toss out the "r" word on a message boards, isn't it? Makes you feel so moral and superior, right?

In my neighborhood, I mostly see Latin Americans getting paid to mow the lawns of lazy shit suburbanites. And when I go to Total Wine in Springfield, which is located in a highly concentrated area of low and lower middle class Latino population, I see that population buying Corona and Tecate by the truckload.

I'm just calling it like I see it, fatty.

fatskippy wrote:

James wrote:
The only beer drank by people who mow lawns are Corona and Tecate.

beer thread just got racist, classy

Don't you have something more important to worry about? - B
I don't find this offensive - I
Stereotypes exist because they have truth in them - N
You're just trying to tell everyone what to thing - G
You're just looking for something to be offended about. - O

BINGO!!!! Gotta BINGO up in here!

Good article. I read it in 2008, when it first came out. That's where your 4% figure came from.

atomicfront wrote:

sweetcell wrote:

atomicfront wrote:
Oliver isn't saying that at all.  […] He is saying extreme beers turn most people off to craft beer as it isn't very palatable. 

do you happen to have a link to where he said that?  because industry trends prove him wrong.  IPAs and DIPAs/IIPAs have been the fastest growing type of beers in the last few years and Oliver, an industry guy, knows this.  so that argument doesn't hold - it's not driving people away, it's reeling them in.

i suspect he said something similar to what you quote him as saying, but not exactly what you said…

This is a 10 page article.  It is near the end.. Maybe around page 7 or 8. But read the whole thing as it is interesting. 

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/24/081124fa_fact_bilger?currentPage=1

Barmy Wines & Liquors (1912 L Street NW at 19th) has some Russian River offerings as of this evening: Temptation, Supplication, Pliny, and another sour that escapes me at the moment.  pretty damn expensive, tho - the top-shelf stuff (including Pliny) was going for $29.99 a bottle.  manager dude told me that since RR doesn't distribute in DC he had to get it indirectly and the additional steps in the distribution chain = additional cost. i didn't buy any, but FYI.

sweetcell wrote:
Barmy Wines & Liquors (1912 L Street NW at 19th) has some Russian River offerings as of this evening: Temptation, Supplication, Pliny, and another sour that escapes me at the moment.  pretty damn expensive, tho - the top-shelf stuff (including Pliny) was going for $29.99 a bottle.  manager dude told me that since RR doesn't distribute in DC he had to get it indirectly and the additional steps in the distribution chain = additional cost. i didn't buy any, but FYI.

Whoa…there is mark up and there is highway robbery. That is ludicrous.

Yada wrote:

sweetcell wrote:
Barmy Wines & Liquors (1912 L Street NW at 19th) has some Russian River offerings as of this evening: Temptation, Supplication, Pliny, and another sour that escapes me at the moment.  pretty damn expensive, tho - the top-shelf stuff (including Pliny) was going for $29.99 a bottle.  manager dude told me that since RR doesn't distribute in DC he had to get it indirectly and the additional steps in the distribution chain = additional cost. i didn't buy any, but FYI.

Whoa…there is mark up and there is highway robbery. That is ludicrous.

Well, somebody has to pay the legal fees when the cops arrest him after reading this thread.

Although it's highway robbery, in DC it's not actually illegal (I think.).

James wrote:
Although it's highway robbery, in DC it's not actually illegal (I think.).

Correct, not illegal.

Wowee. We scored a growler of Avery MAharaja for $10 on MA-thers Day. This beer is one of the few brutes that can put my chili in its place. And I luv it And it's getting better as it warms.

where the hell did you get maharaja for $10/growler?!?

im coming to dc for the next two days.  im going to drink some beer.  i wonder if it is still cop week?  oh yeah . . . half naked cops and beer.

My 72 year old mom did the single coolest thing of her life a couple of weeks ago. My brother took her to the Alchemist, where she sampled Heady Topper and brought home a four pack for herself. She drank one and decided drinking a whole can was far too much for her. So she said she'd save the other three until August, when she sees me.

No, MOM, drink those Heady's now. They're best fresh!

She also said she preferred some of hte Magic Hat beers she sampled to Heady.  ::)

it's american craft beer week!
http://www.craftbeer.com/news-and-events/american-craft-beer-week

it's no CBC, but there are various events going like like a free tasting at Cordial Fine Wines on Thursday (walking distance from Noma-Gallaudet), and a Stone is doing a tap take-over at the Iron Horse on Thursday, etc.  calendar: http://www.craftbeer.com/news-and-events/calendar?event_type=530

James wrote:
My 72 year old mom did the single coolest thing of her life a couple of weeks ago. My brother took her to the Alchemist, where she sampled Heady Topper and brought home a four pack for herself. She drank one and decided drinking a whole can was far too much for her. So she said she'd save the other three until August, when she sees me.

No, MOM, drink those Heady's now. They're best fresh!

She also said she preferred some of hte Magic Hat beers she sampled to Heady.  ::)

I drank two Toppers out of my last four pack over the weekend that are nearly 6 months old and there was little to no degradation in taste, still absolutely amazing.